Dave Bolland

[Jalili]

He's our rental, basically. Likely won't be re-signed and for good reason if the reports on his demands are true, but he will still be invaluable in the team's quest to go further in the playoffs this season.

I think it would be a tough decision to re-sign Bolland but given that the team is already stuck with one monstrosity of a contract that goes by the name of David Clarkson, I don't think they can risk another mistake.

 

[bustaheims]

I don't think anyone doubts that Bolland is a good player, the question is whether or not you want to invest 4-5 million in a 3rd line center.

Especially when you have a couple potential replacements already in the system.

 

[Corn Flake]

I don't think anyone doubts that Bolland is a good player, the question is whether or not you want to invest 4-5 million in a 3rd line center.

Especially when you have a couple potential replacements already in the system.

Like who?

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I don't think anyone doubts that Bolland is a good player, the question is whether or not you want to invest 4-5 million in a 3rd line center.

Especially when you have a couple potential replacements already in the system.

Like who?

Heter Polland

 

[Corn Flake]

I don't think anyone doubts that Bolland is a good player, the question is whether or not you want to invest 4-5 million in a 3rd line center.

Especially when you have a couple potential replacements already in the system.

Like who?

Heter Polland

Completely different player.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I don't think anyone doubts that Bolland is a good player, the question is whether or not you want to invest 4-5 million in a 3rd line center.

Especially when you have a couple potential replacements already in the system.

Like who?

Heter Polland

Completely different player.

You don't have to have only a certain type of player as your 3C.  Leafs have only had Bolland for 15 games, so it's hard to argue they would be losing something by having Holland as your 3C because Bolland hasn't been here long enough to have a lasting impact.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Like who?

Heter Polland

Or you sign a stop-gap 3rd line centre for a couple million before Gauthier is ready to take the reigns there.

You just don't lock down a 3rd line centre for 5+ years. There's absolutely no reason to.

 

[Kin]

I don't think anyone doubts that Bolland is a good player, the question is whether or not you want to invest 4-5 million in a 3rd line center.

Especially when you have a couple potential replacements already in the system.

Like who?

Heter Polland

Completely different player.

Alternatives then. There still needs to be a justification for spending that much money on a third line center.

 

[Corn Flake]

I don't think anyone doubts that Bolland is a good player, the question is whether or not you want to invest 4-5 million in a 3rd line center.

Especially when you have a couple potential replacements already in the system.

Like who?

Heter Polland

Completely different player.

Alternatives then. There still needs to be a justification for spending that much money on a third line center.

Alternative prospects?  The prospect who IMO most closely resembles Bolland and is closest to the NHL is McKegg, but I wouldn't put him down in pen to be an impactful 3rd line centre as of yet, and give him at least 2-3 more years. Gauthier is the potential stud guy but that's also 3'ish years away from even being on the consideration list.

I think with Bolland you have to decide if you want what would be considered a very high end 3rd line guy with the track record of coming up really big in big games (ie: Chris Drury) and will probably be getting high 2nd line-type ice time in the playoffs as a shutdown guy, and pay for that accordingly, or you go with more of a typical mid-tier 3rd line centre you can get for maybe $2.5 mil on the open market.

Looking at the Leafs payroll for next year, I'm fine with $4-4.5 for Bolland (4 years max though, not this imaginary 7-8 year stuff) because I want what he can bring in big games and I know he's going to step into more of a top six ice time role (minus power play, most likely) in those games, and I can see that amount slotting in fairly well within the cap structure.

But hey, that's just me.

 

[Corn Flake]

Like who?

Heter Polland

Or you sign a stop-gap 3rd line centre for a couple million before Gauthier is ready to take the reigns there.

You just don't lock down a 3rd line centre for 5+ years. There's absolutely no reason to.

I think the 5+ year stuff is in the imagination of his agent, or the media twerps who are saying that's what it is.

Bolland for 4 years works just dandy and hopefully Gauthier or McKegg or other are ready to step in at that point.

 

[Kin]

Alternative prospects? 

No, as in, if you don't consider Holland to be a replacement for Bolland in the strictest sense then Holland is an alternative option for the Leafs at that position at a significantly reduced cost.

Signing Bolland for 4 years and 4 million per, which would probably be on the low end on both term and cost, is tying up a lot of money in the third line especially when one of Kulemin or Clarkson is going to be there for the forseeable future and the team not only needs to re-sign defensemen but make upgrades there as well.

I'm not fundamentally opposed to the idea of bringing back Bolland but if re-signing him means a 5 year/25 million dollar deal I think you'd have to look long and hard at how much it is he really contributes over someone like Holland.

 

[Champ Kind]

I'm with Flake on this.  From a cap perspective, a low 1c (Bozak) and a high 3c (Bolland) wash each other out.  There is no doubt that he stregthens the Leafs as a team, is probably one of the better third line centres in the league, can shuffle up or down the lineup with ease, and brings a lot of experience with him.

The long term deal is, as pointed out, just nuts.  I think you could get 75% of Bolland out of Komarov at 50% of the cost.  But again, as was pointed out, weren't the talking heads claiming Bozak wanted seven years at $5m?

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Alternative prospects?  The prospect who IMO most closely resembles Bolland and is closest to the NHL is McKegg, but I wouldn't put him down in pen to be an impactful 3rd line centre as of yet, and give him at least 2-3 more years. Gauthier is the potential stud guy but that's also 3'ish years away from even being on the consideration list.

I think with Bolland you have to decide if you want what would be considered a very high end 3rd line guy with the track record of coming up really big in big games (ie: Chris Drury) and will probably be getting high 2nd line-type ice time in the playoffs as a shutdown guy, and pay for that accordingly, or you go with more of a typical mid-tier 3rd line centre you can get for maybe $2.5 mil on the open market.

Looking at the Leafs payroll for next year, I'm fine with $4-4.5 for Bolland (4 years max though, not this imaginary 7-8 year stuff) because I want what he can bring in big games and I know he's going to step into more of a top six ice time role (minus power play, most likely) in those games, and I can see that amount slotting in fairly well within the cap structure.

But hey, that's just me.

I think that's too much to tie up with Bolland.  I'm not one of those cap-savvy people so I rely on others mostly, but here's what Mirtle has just said:

@mirtle 

Leafs could be in a position needing three top nine forwards, a defenceman and a backup goalie in offseason. Lot of items on shopping list.

@mirtle

I count about $15-million for those needs. You add one at $5-million though and it's very tight.

I think at some point the Leafs need to stop overpaying depth guys (not that Bolland is necessary an overpayment, but with Clarkson already on the roster...) and start filling these positions with cheaper, in-house, developed-by-the-Leafs guys.  I think Holland could probably do it, Leafs have pretty good wing depth right now and if you can re-sign Kulemin then great.

I like Bolland, but in the context of the Leafs needs + cap space I'm not so sure I want him coming back.

 

[Kin]

I think the 5+ year stuff is in the imagination of his agent, or the media twerps who are saying that's what it is.

I don't think so. If you look at how the market shook out last year just about every free agent center got a five year deal with Ribeiro, at 33 years old, getting four. Bolland, at 27 years old and likely to be in some demand, is probably starting out by asking for six or seven but as negotiations go imagining him ending up with at least five is pretty easy.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I think the 5+ year stuff is in the imagination of his agent, or the media twerps who are saying that's what it is.

The 8 year, $40mil figure might be out there, but I'd be shocked if he signed for anything less than $4.5mil/5 years. And even that's just too much for him. Like I said before, he has all the intangibles that GMs love to stupidly overspend on. This will be his first shot at being a UFA, and considering how his body seems to be degrading, will likely be his only opportunity to cash in on a big deal. He's going to go where the money is.

 

[bustaheims]

Based on the cap projections, the Leafs have just over $21M in space for next season to sign 10 players. As things stand now, they basically have to bring in an entire 3rd line, add at least 1 quality NHL calibre defenceman, as well as make decisions on guys like Franson and Reimer (both of whom are likely to be traded, but not guaranteed to be). Gardiner is also in need of a new contract. Signing Bolland for between $4M-$5M make it difficult for the team to make significant improvements in other areas.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I think at some point the Leafs need to stop overpaying depth guys (not that Bolland is necessary an overpayment, but with Clarkson already on the roster...) and start filling these positions with cheaper, in-house, developed-by-the-Leafs guys.  I think Holland could probably do it, Leafs have pretty good wing depth right now and if you can re-sign Kulemin then great.

Bingo. Assuming Bolland re-signs and we re-sign Kadri next summer, we're looking at 7 of our top-9 forwards coming in at $4mil or more for the next few seasons. Not only is that a terrible position to be in cap-wise, but you're making it very difficult for our forward prospects to come in and make an impact.

 

[Kin]

I'm with Flake on this.  From a cap perspective, a low 1c (Bozak) and a high 3c (Bolland) wash each other out. 

Well, they do unless you've already got four wingers making 4 million or more with one of them at 8. The Leafs already have 5 forwards signed next year at almost 27 million and need to keep an eye to Kadri needing to be re-signed. They're not going to be life and death with the cap but they're not in a good enough position that any deal cancels another one out.

The long term deal is, as pointed out, just nuts.  I think you could get 75% of Bolland out of Komarov at 50% of the cost.  But again, as was pointed out, weren't the talking heads claiming Bozak wanted seven years at $5m?

Sure, which he probably did. What he ultimately got was something that people still thought was a year too long and at a higher value than they'd like.

 

[Corn Flake]

I think that's too much to tie up with Bolland.  I'm not one of those cap-savvy people so I rely on others mostly, but here's what Mirtle has just said:

@mirtle 

Leafs could be in a position needing three top nine forwards, a defenceman and a backup goalie in offseason. Lot of items on shopping list.

@mirtle

I count about $15-million for those needs. You add one at $5-million though and it's very tight.

I don't see it the way Mirtle does.  He's not factoring in any other changes to the roster where room can be created. 

Here is my rough take:

gone: Franson, Reimer, Ranger, McLaren, Raymond.

FORWARDS
Joffrey Lupul ($5.250m) / Tyler Bozak ($4.200m) / Phil Kessel ($8.000m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m) / Nazem Kadri ($2.900m) / David Clarkson ($5.250m)
Peter Holland ($1.000m) / Dave Bolland ($4.500m) / Nikolai Kulemin ($3.000m)
Troy Bodie ($0.800m) / Jay McClement ($1.500m) / Colton Orr ($0.925m)
Carter Ashton ($0.950m)

DEFENSEMEN
Carl Gunnarsson ($3.150m) / Dion Phaneuf ($7.000m)
Tim Gleason ($4.000m) / Morgan Rielly ($0.894m)
Jake Gardiner ($2.500m) / Ron Hainsey ($2.000m)
Korbinian Holzer ($0.788m)

GOALTENDERS
Jonathan Bernier ($2.900m)
Justin Peters ($0.800m)


SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,556,667; BONUSES: $850,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $4,543,333


So I made a few hard decisions on Franson and Reimer, but even with those I still have $4.5 mil in cap space.  Sooo I'm not seeing the cause for concern. 

 

[bustaheims]

Completely different player.

You know you don't have to replace Bolland with another Bolland, right? Holland is a smart, defensively responsible centre, who bring some offensive flair and has the ability to move up in the lineup if/when the need arises. He also comes significantly cheaper than Bolland and, freak lice bite infection this season aside, doesn't have the injury history that Bolland does. While I'm hopeful he can be more, he's definitely good enough to be a 3rd line centre for the Leafs next season. The Leafs need to A) find guys who contribute above the level expected from their cap hit and B) have a succession plan in place to get some of the younger guys into the lineup. Signing more players to long-term, big money deals doesn't help in either of those areas.