Dave Bolland

[Redleaf]

koshtorontosun: Bolland won't play tomorrow, he says #Leafs

I'm starting to have my doubts that Bolland will return at all. I really hope the team doesn't commit long-term to him.

The Leafs are a better team with him than without him. I'm hoping he's back after the deadline and finds the game he was playing before the injury. I think he can be a game changer when he's on top of his game.

See I just don't know what anyone can base this on. We're talking about a guy who has never scored 20 goals or reached 50 points in a season.  The idea that Bolland is a game changer, or even just someone that Toronto needs to sign long-term, just baffles me.

Go back and watch some the games he played this year for the Leafs. He's been out for so long, people forget how well he played for them. He certainly has a knack for scoring a lot of garbage, in-the-crease goals, which the Leafs haven't been getting from anyone else this year. Those goals were often timely and seemed to help create a lot of momentum for the team. They also added another dimension to the Leafs attack, which has been mostly goalscoring off the rush this season.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

koshtorontosun: Bolland won't play tomorrow, he says #Leafs

I'm starting to have my doubts that Bolland will return at all. I really hope the team doesn't commit long-term to him.

The Leafs are a better team with him than without him. I'm hoping he's back after the deadline and finds the game he was playing before the injury. I think he can be a game changer when he's on top of his game.

See I just don't know what anyone can base this on. We're talking about a guy who has never scored 20 goals or reached 50 points in a season.  The idea that Bolland is a game changer, or even just someone that Toronto needs to sign long-term, just baffles me.

Go back and watch some the games he played this year for the Leafs. He's been out for so long, people forget how well he played for them. He certainly has a knack for scoring a lot of garbage, in-the-crease goals, which the Leafs haven't been getting from anyone else this year. Those goals were often timely and seemed to help create a lot of momentum for the team. They also added another dimension to the Leafs attack, which has been mostly goalscoring off the rush this season.

His time with the Leafs before he was injured is way too small of a sample to draw any big conclusions about his impact on the team.  He had a very good start to his Leafs career and then was injured, that's all.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

Remember when the plan was for him to play before the Olympics?

Yes, present word from the Leafs remains that he'll definitely be playing before Rio, or PyeongCheang at the latest.

 

[Redleaf]

koshtorontosun: Bolland won't play tomorrow, he says #Leafs

I'm starting to have my doubts that Bolland will return at all. I really hope the team doesn't commit long-term to him.

The Leafs are a better team with him than without him. I'm hoping he's back after the deadline and finds the game he was playing before the injury. I think he can be a game changer when he's on top of his game.

See I just don't know what anyone can base this on. We're talking about a guy who has never scored 20 goals or reached 50 points in a season.  The idea that Bolland is a game changer, or even just someone that Toronto needs to sign long-term, just baffles me.

Go back and watch some the games he played this year for the Leafs. He's been out for so long, people forget how well he played for them. He certainly has a knack for scoring a lot of garbage, in-the-crease goals, which the Leafs haven't been getting from anyone else this year. Those goals were often timely and seemed to help create a lot of momentum for the team. They also added another dimension to the Leafs attack, which has been mostly goalscoring off the rush this season.

His time with the Leafs before he was injured is way too small of a sample to draw any big conclusions about his impact on the team.  He had a very good start to his Leafs career and then was injured, that's all.

Well, I suppose his play could drop off significantly coming off the injury, but I don't think his early play can be chalked up to luck either. The small sample size as an argument can't be used to completely dismiss how well he's looked in Toronto either. He plays a well rounded game, and I'm pretty sure that hasnt just come about since he signed in Toronto.

 

[L K]

Bolland's 15 games in context:

* 9 blocks (10th on the team if he played all 62 games at that pace and we don't adjust any other player for more GP)
* 41.3% on faceoffs
* 6 goals on 27 shots (22.2% shooting percentage - career 14.8%)
* Took 9 minor penalties: Drew 0 minor penalties
* Gave up 4 SH goals in 27 minutes of penalty kill time

Bolland was good, but the subsequent collapse of the team made his absence seem much greater.

 

[Rebel_1812]

koshtorontosun: Bolland won't play tomorrow, he says #Leafs

I'm starting to have my doubts that Bolland will return at all. I really hope the team doesn't commit long-term to him.

The Leafs are a better team with him than without him. I'm hoping he's back after the deadline and finds the game he was playing before the injury. I think he can be a game changer when he's on top of his game.

See I just don't know what anyone can base this on. We're talking about a guy who has never scored 20 goals or reached 50 points in a season.  The idea that Bolland is a game changer, or even just someone that Toronto needs to sign long-term, just baffles me.

I think your confusing him with stajan.

 

[ZBBM]

koshtorontosun: Bolland won't play tomorrow, he says #Leafs

I'm starting to have my doubts that Bolland will return at all. I really hope the team doesn't commit long-term to him.

The Leafs are a better team with him than without him. I'm hoping he's back after the deadline and finds the game he was playing before the injury. I think he can be a game changer when he's on top of his game.

See I just don't know what anyone can base this on. We're talking about a guy who has never scored 20 goals or reached 50 points in a season.  The idea that Bolland is a game changer, or even just someone that Toronto needs to sign long-term, just baffles me.

Go back and watch some the games he played this year for the Leafs. He's been out for so long, people forget how well he played for them. He certainly has a knack for scoring a lot of garbage, in-the-crease goals, which the Leafs haven't been getting from anyone else this year. Those goals were often timely and seemed to help create a lot of momentum for the team. They also added another dimension to the Leafs attack, which has been mostly goalscoring off the rush this season.

This.

Bolland was a great fit for this team and complimented the first 2 lines well.  I can only hope he comes back before the end of the season so they have enough time to evaluate his play coming off an injury that may really hamper him from here on out ... or not.

 

[Andy007]

koshtorontosun: Bolland won't play tomorrow, he says #Leafs

I'm starting to have my doubts that Bolland will return at all. I really hope the team doesn't commit long-term to him.

The Leafs are a better team with him than without him. I'm hoping he's back after the deadline and finds the game he was playing before the injury. I think he can be a game changer when he's on top of his game.

See I just don't know what anyone can base this on. We're talking about a guy who has never scored 20 goals or reached 50 points in a season.  The idea that Bolland is a game changer, or even just someone that Toronto needs to sign long-term, just baffles me.

I think your confusing him with stajan.

And I think you're confusing facts with fiction.

 

[Andy007]

koshtorontosun: Bolland won't play tomorrow, he says #Leafs

I'm starting to have my doubts that Bolland will return at all. I really hope the team doesn't commit long-term to him.

The Leafs are a better team with him than without him. I'm hoping he's back after the deadline and finds the game he was playing before the injury. I think he can be a game changer when he's on top of his game.

See I just don't know what anyone can base this on. We're talking about a guy who has never scored 20 goals or reached 50 points in a season.  The idea that Bolland is a game changer, or even just someone that Toronto needs to sign long-term, just baffles me.

Go back and watch some the games he played this year for the Leafs. He's been out for so long, people forget how well he played for them. He certainly has a knack for scoring a lot of garbage, in-the-crease goals, which the Leafs haven't been getting from anyone else this year. Those goals were often timely and seemed to help create a lot of momentum for the team. They also added another dimension to the Leafs attack, which has been mostly goalscoring off the rush this season.

His time with the Leafs before he was injured is way too small of a sample to draw any big conclusions about his impact on the team.  He had a very good start to his Leafs career and then was injured, that's all.

Well, I suppose his play could drop off significantly coming off the injury, but I don't think his early play can be chalked up to luck either. The small sample size as an argument can't be used to completely dismiss how well he's looked in Toronto either. He plays a well rounded game, and I'm pretty sure that hasnt just come about since he signed in Toronto.

I can get behind the fact that he played well in 15 games here but...well...it's 15 games. Raymond looked like Pavel Bure in his first 15 games.

Bolland's best season was 19 goals and 47 points, and that includes ample time with Chicago's best players. He's also a below average faceoff guy. This is a guy who already makes 3.5 million and who would, most likely, get a decent raise on a long term contract all the while sporting a busted foot. Barring a hugely successful return to the lineup I don't see why anyone would give this guy a raise, let alone a multi-year contract.

 

[Optimus Reimer]

koshtorontosun: Bolland won't play tomorrow, he says #Leafs

I'm starting to have my doubts that Bolland will return at all. I really hope the team doesn't commit long-term to him.

The Leafs are a better team with him than without him. I'm hoping he's back after the deadline and finds the game he was playing before the injury. I think he can be a game changer when he's on top of his game.

See I just don't know what anyone can base this on. We're talking about a guy who has never scored 20 goals or reached 50 points in a season.  The idea that Bolland is a game changer, or even just someone that Toronto needs to sign long-term, just baffles me.

Go back and watch some the games he played this year for the Leafs. He's been out for so long, people forget how well he played for them. He certainly has a knack for scoring a lot of garbage, in-the-crease goals, which the Leafs haven't been getting from anyone else this year. Those goals were often timely and seemed to help create a lot of momentum for the team. They also added another dimension to the Leafs attack, which has been mostly goalscoring off the rush this season.

His time with the Leafs before he was injured is way too small of a sample to draw any big conclusions about his impact on the team.  He had a very good start to his Leafs career and then was injured, that's all.

Well, I suppose his play could drop off significantly coming off the injury, but I don't think his early play can be chalked up to luck either. The small sample size as an argument can't be used to completely dismiss how well he's looked in Toronto either. He plays a well rounded game, and I'm pretty sure that hasnt just come about since he signed in Toronto.

I can get behind the fact that he played well in 15 games here but...well...it's 15 games. Raymond looked like Pavel Bure in his first 15 games.

Bolland's best season was 19 goals and 47 points, and that includes ample time with Chicago's best players. He's also a below average faceoff guy. This is a guy who already makes 3.5 million and who would, most likely, get a decent raise on a long term contract all the while sporting a busted foot. Barring a hugely successful return to the lineup I don't see why anyone would give this guy a raise, let alone a multi-year contract.

Reason it will happen is there will always be at least one idiot GM who is willing to over-trump a rival GM to obtain a certain hockey player by offering that hockey player better incentives (longer term, more $$$ etc.) and offering more than what the player is actually worth.  It happens every year doesn't it Nonis?

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Well, I suppose his play could drop off significantly coming off the injury, but I don't think his early play can be chalked up to luck either. The small sample size as an argument can't be used to completely dismiss how well he's looked in Toronto either. He plays a well rounded game, and I'm pretty sure that hasnt just come about since he signed in Toronto.

I'm not saying dismiss his play because of sample size, I'm saying take the sample size into context when discussing him and especially into context with the rest of his career to this point.  I'm going to guess you, as is the case with me, did not heavily scout Bolland in Chicago other than odd games here or there and highlights so it's hard to really come to any conclusions about his impact to the team based on such a small sample.

 

[bustaheims]

The Leafs are a better team with him than without him. I'm hoping he's back after the deadline and finds the game he was playing before the injury. I think he can be a game changer when he's on top of his game.

I strongly disagree with the notion that Bolland can be a game changer. He really hasn't ever been that in his career. It's extremely unlikely he's going to become one now. But, really, it's this simple - the difference between the Leafs with Bolland on the 3rd line and the Leafs with Holland/Smith/etc on the 3rd line does not justify the type of contract that Bolland is looking for, especially considering his extensive injury history and the fact that he hasn't played a game since the beginning of November and appears to still be a fair way away from returning. The gap between the Leaf in those scenarios is just not that big.

 

[Kin]

I don't disagree with the idea that Bolland, or any talented depth center, can change a game in the most literal sense or that having one is better than not having one. The real question is, as busta points out, trying to accurately gauge how much that's worth. I mean, if we were talking about a 3rd line center who was Mike Peca or Bob Gainey in their prime in terms of defensive abilities they would be a "game-changer" too but we wouldn't throw 7 or 8 million a year at them.

The thing I think some people are going to be slow getting used to is that in a hard cap system sometimes you're going to have to voluntarily say goodbye to good players. Smart GMs, and we see this all the time in Football with teams like the Patriots or in Hockey with the Blackhawks, will just let a guy go if they think they have someone in house who can do 80% of the job at half or a third of the cost.

So saying that the team shouldn't retain Bolland isn't saying he's not good and the debate shouldn't center around whether or not he's good or whether he's "worth" what he's asking for on the open market. It really needs to be about how he fits into the Leafs from both a hockey sense and a financial sense and what alternatives they have.

 

[Keonist]

Any word on his status for tonight?

 

[Deebo]

Any word on his status for tonight?

Will not play.

 

[Redleaf]

I don't disagree with the idea that Bolland, or any talented depth center, can change a game in the most literal sense or that having one is better than not having one. The real question is, as busta points out, trying to accurately gauge how much that's worth. I mean, if we were talking about a 3rd line center who was Mike Peca or Bob Gainey in their prime in terms of defensive abilities they would be a "game-changer" too but we wouldn't throw 7 or 8 million a year at them.

The thing I think some people are going to be slow getting used to is that in a hard cap system sometimes you're going to have to voluntarily say goodbye to good players. Smart GMs, and we see this all the time in Football with teams like the Patriots or in Hockey with the Blackhawks, will just let a guy go if they think they have someone in house who can do 80% of the job at half or a third of the cost.

So saying that the team shouldn't retain Bolland isn't saying he's not good and the debate shouldn't center around whether or not he's good or whether he's "worth" what he's asking for on the open market. It really needs to be about how he fits into the Leafs from both a hockey sense and a financial sense and what alternatives they have.

I don't think there's any question about whether or not the cap is affecting players contracts and whether or not players are being moved to fit teams under it.

The interesting part of this to me is the decision process, and which individual players will ultimately be retained, and which will be cut loose or traded away. If Nonis believes Bolland's style of play compliments the team enough (or differs enough from other styles on the roster) to pay him more than an average third liner, than other contracts will be moved out so that he can stay. That scenario doesn't seem all that unlikely to me.

If the sound bites were hearing lately from Nonis are any indication of what will happen, I think Bolland's situation will play out much like Bozaks did, when his contract was up last year. He will get to free agency, and will ultimately have to decide whether he wants to give Toronto a home town discount or move along for more money.

The interesting part is seeing how it all unfolds, especially since the injury might play a big part in all of it.

 

[Kin]

I don't think there's any question about whether or not the cap is affecting players contracts and whether or not players are being moved to fit teams under it.

But that's why a discussion of a contract of this magnitude needs to be done from that perspective. Is Bolland worth it if it means the team has to cut Reimer loose and go cheap on backup goaltending? Is he worth it if it means that the team, more or less, has to move forward with the defense as-is? Or take a position on Kadri's extension that could be detrimental to the team?

If the Leafs take the sort of approach you're talking about, where they make a below market offer and just hope that he takes it, think about what they're risking by not having decisions in place by the deadline or the draft, which are traditionally the best times to move pieces for good returns. Think about the uncertainty it creates with negotiating with their other RFAs.

I think Dave Bolland is a good player but I really think we should look at how Chicago looked at him and what he brought and what he would cost and decided that they wanted to turn him into other, cheaper assets. It wasn't that they didn't like him or didn't think he could help them win, he just scored a cup winning goal for them, it's that they know how to strike while the iron's hot. I don't know about you but if there's a team out there I'd like the Leafs to resemble, it's the Blackhawks.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

So Bolland is out of town to see a specialist regarding his ankle...

 

[bustaheims]

So Bolland is out of town to see a specialist regarding his ankle...

I really don't expect to see him in a Leaf uniform as an active player again.

 

[Kin]

I wouldn't jump to conclusions based on a doctors appmnt.

I think it's a pretty reasonable guess given that we know achilles injuries can take a full year to recover.