Game of Thrones (S6)

[mr grieves]

Hmmm. Or the show's plot mechanics are designed to deliver thrills and surprises and last-minute reversals rather than a coherent, realist narrative?

We're not even touching on the part where Ramsay, a noted hothead and sneak, rather than military strategist (per Roose), uses a Hannibal-esque pincer and phalanx to pin Jon's army against a wall of the dead, which has not been seen in Westeros before (who trained the Bolton men? the Unsullied?).

I stopped watching the show, except to check in to see how a few episodes were done, when I concluded that, for all the "realistic" undermining of fantasy literature tropes (which got a bit ostentatious and alienating), the show was still, essentially, a soap opera.

 

[jonlleafs]

Hmmm. Or the show's plot mechanics are designed to deliver thrills and surprises and last-minute reversals rather than a coherent, realist narrative?

Wait.  Why would TV do that to us?  Shouldn't it be realistic and predictable?

 

[AtomicMapleLeaf]

Re-watching the last episode.  My biggest question is how come the giant doesn't have a sword?

 

[mr grieves]

Hmmm. Or the show's plot mechanics are designed to deliver thrills and surprises and last-minute reversals rather than a coherent, realist narrative?

Wait.  Why would TV do that to us?  Shouldn't it be realistic and predictable?

Did I say "predictable"? Not the distinction I was making.

There are other shows that are quite good and that have different (narrower) narrative scopes,  whose episodes and seasons are structured quite differently, and, as a result, whose narrative payoffs are experienced quite differently.

Given what Game of Thrones is at this level -- a melodrama or soap opera, essentially -- it's a bit weird to be complaining about how the Littlefinger cavalry arrives. That's what the show does!

 

[jonlleafs]

Re-watching the last episode.  My biggest question is how come the giant doesn't have a sword?

Yeah or a big tree?

 

[jonlleafs]

Hmmm. Or the show's plot mechanics are designed to deliver thrills and surprises and last-minute reversals rather than a coherent, realist narrative?

Wait.  Why would TV do that to us?  Shouldn't it be realistic and predictable?

Did I say "predictable"? Not the distinction I was making.

There are other shows that are quite good and that have different (narrower) narrative scopes,  whose episodes and seasons are structured quite differently, and, as a result, whose narrative payoffs are experienced quite differently.

Given what Game of Thrones is at this level -- a melodrama or soap opera, essentially -- it's a bit weird to be complaining about how the Littlefinger cavalry arrives. That's what the show does!

If you couldn't tell.  I was being sarcastic and agreed with you.

 

[bustaheims]

The last two Iron Throne Kings have been products of sibling incest, as was the entire Targaryen line for the most part since they took the throne.

I should probably have been more clear - I don't think they'd want to go there with their heroes. So far, incest has largely been the realm of characters we're either supposed to hate or went mad and tried to kill everyone.

 

[herman]

The last two Iron Throne Kings have been products of sibling incest, as was the entire Targaryen line for the most part since they took the throne.

I should probably have been more clear - I don't think they'd want to go there with their heroes. So far, incest has largely been the realm of characters we're either supposed to hate or went mad and tried to kill everyone.

The last two Kings were Joffrey (product of incest) and Robert (not a product of incest), but I assume TBLeafer was referring to Aerys. All three died ignobly, which people will read as sort of an authorial judgment regarding their lives. If anything, the story is steering characters away from those Old Ways.

On top of that, Daenerys' story has been about her gaining independence from conferred power through marriages (Drogo, Hizdahr zo Loraq) and finding her own way (see Yara and Dany's conversation). In the books, everyone is trying to marry her for her power (and ostensibly beauty). Everyone is marrying Sansa off to claim her titles. Margaery is marrying everyone for their claim to the Iron Throne. The theme is Power and the ending will be about that, rather than which pairing rules the roost.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I can see Dany and Jon somehow joining forces and being allied at the end of the show but yeah I very much doubt it'll be through marriage.

And I don't think Jon will even want to be king.

 

[Bullfrog]

The last two Iron Throne Kings have been products of sibling incest, as was the entire Targaryen line for the most part since they took the throne.

I should probably have been more clear - I don't think they'd want to go there with their heroes. So far, incest has largely been the realm of characters we're either supposed to hate or went mad and tried to kill everyone.

The last two Kings were Joffrey (product of incest) and Robert (not a product of incest), but I assume TBLeafer was referring to Aerys. All three died ignobly, which people will read as sort of an authorial judgment regarding their lives. If anything, the story is steering characters away from those Old Ways.
..

I'm assuming he was referring to Tommen and Joffrey.

 

[TBLeafer]

The last two Iron Throne Kings have been products of sibling incest, as was the entire Targaryen line for the most part since they took the throne.

I should probably have been more clear - I don't think they'd want to go there with their heroes. So far, incest has largely been the realm of characters we're either supposed to hate or went mad and tried to kill everyone.

The last two Kings were Joffrey (product of incest) and Robert (not a product of incest), but I assume TBLeafer was referring to Aerys. All three died ignobly, which people will read as sort of an authorial judgment regarding their lives. If anything, the story is steering characters away from those Old Ways.
..

I'm assuming he was referring to Tommen and Joffrey.

Yes I was thanks. 

 

[Joe S.]

I can see Dany and Jon somehow joining forces and being allied at the end of the show but yeah I very much doubt it'll be through marriage.

And I don't think Jon will even want to be king.

Dude could have been a Stark and said no... though I'm not sure what legitimacy Stanis' decree would have held.

 

[herman]

The last two Iron Throne Kings have been products of sibling incest, as was the entire Targaryen line for the most part since they took the throne.

I should probably have been more clear - I don't think they'd want to go there with their heroes. So far, incest has largely been the realm of characters we're either supposed to hate or went mad and tried to kill everyone.

The last two Kings were Joffrey (product of incest) and Robert (not a product of incest), but I assume TBLeafer was referring to Aerys. All three died ignobly, which people will read as sort of an authorial judgment regarding their lives. If anything, the story is steering characters away from those Old Ways.
..

I'm assuming he was referring to Tommen and Joffrey.

Yes I was thanks. 

Ah. Usually when I refer to the last kings, I am not including the current.
Anyway, this whole story started because someone found out the king's heirs were not only illegitimate, but incestuously conceived. It's not likely to end with more of the same.

Nevermind that it would be a presumably living person with an un-dead person  :-X

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Dude could have been a Stark and said no... though I'm not sure what legitimacy Stanis' decree would have held.

At that point though he was still loyal to the Nights Watch. They made it seem like he really wanted to accept but that was getting in the way. Now that that's over with I'm guessing he helps Dany win the thrown and she legitimizes him as the Lord of Winterfell.

 

[bustaheims]

At that point though he was still loyal to the Nights Watch. They made it seem like he really wanted to accept but that was getting in the way. Now that that's over with I'm guessing he helps Dany win the thrown and she legitimizes him as the Lord of Winterfell.

That's likely. One of the theories out there is that he'll be riding one of the remaining dragons (likely Rhaegal - since it's potentially named after his father).

 

[CarltonTheBear]

At that point though he was still loyal to the Nights Watch. They made it seem like he really wanted to accept but that was getting in the way. Now that that's over with I'm guessing he helps Dany win the thrown and she legitimizes him as the Lord of Winterfell.

That's likely. One of the theories out there is that he'll be riding one of the remaining dragons (likely Rhaegal - since it's potentially named after his father).

Yeah. Dany's the Queen, Tyrion's the Hand, Jon's the Lord of Winterfell. With them all potentially being linked through blood. That's basically the expected happy ending version of this story.

 

[L K]

Had the Knights of the Vale been revealed when the battle lines were formed, Ramsay would never have come out of Winterfell, and Jon's army would've lost then by attrition/starvation. Like the war council determined before, Ramsay needed to believe he could win or else he wouldn't bother to come out.

That's a good point. But I don't think it explains Sansa's intentions. Or I mean instead of showing their hand Davos could have suggested the Knights just hide behind a hill or something until the battle starts. Or Jon could have known the Knights were on their way but started before they arrived because of what happened with Rickon.

So basically it all goes back to the decision being made primarily because it made for good TV. Which, again, I'm fine with.

It's a common trope though.  It's the exact same scene that capped both battles in Lord of the Rings when the Rohirrim show up.

 

[rdowdall]

Had the Knights of the Vale been revealed when the battle lines were formed, Ramsay would never have come out of Winterfell, and Jon's army would've lost then by attrition/starvation. Like the war council determined before, Ramsay needed to believe he could win or else he wouldn't bother to come out.

That's a good point. But I don't think it explains Sansa's intentions. Or I mean instead of showing their hand Davos could have suggested the Knights just hide behind a hill or something until the battle starts. Or Jon could have known the Knights were on their way but started before they arrived because of what happened with Rickon.

So basically it all goes back to the decision being made primarily because it made for good TV. Which, again, I'm fine with.

It's a common trope though.  It's the exact same scene that capped both battles in Lord of the Rings when the Rohirrim show up.

Only one of those scenes had Gandalf though.

 

[Kin]

It's a common trope though.  It's the exact same scene that capped both battles in Lord of the Rings when the Rohirrim show up.

Which is true but I don't think anyone left the theatres after those movies being really blown away by how things turned out. Those movies succeeded by way of spectacle and scope, not so much a plot that kept you guessing.

 

[TBLeafer]

Couldn't Sansa now that she has reclaimed Winterfell make Jon a Stark is she so chose?

Don't know how that would work though.  He would then be the legitimate heir as her elder.