General Leafs Talk v2.0

[Mike1]

David Alter ‏@DavidAlter590 3m
Carlyle suggests Colton Orr will rejoin the 4th line the soonest he is healthy, despite how effective D'Amigo-Smithson-Bodie was yesterday.

David Alter ‏@DavidAlter590 2m
Carlyle: I think Orrsy earned that right to play on that line, participate and every opportunity to rejoin that line.

Carlyle has one hell of a man-crush on Orr.

None of this stuff surprises me & just re-enforces why I'm not a big Carlyle guy. Some of the players he thinks highly of are just terrible. Orr is apart of that club. It makes me concerned as a Leaf fan when someone who has a big say in things has such a terrible eye for talent.

 

[losveratos]

David Alter ‏@DavidAlter590 3m
Carlyle suggests Colton Orr will rejoin the 4th line the soonest he is healthy, despite how effective D'Amigo-Smithson-Bodie was yesterday.

David Alter ‏@DavidAlter590 2m
Carlyle: I think Orrsy earned that right to play on that line, participate and every opportunity to rejoin that line.

Carlyle has one hell of a man-crush on Orr.

None of this stuff surprises me & just re-enforces why I'm not a big Carlyle guy. Some of the players he thinks highly of are just terrible. Orr is apart of that club. It makes me concerned as a Leaf fan when someone who has a big say in things has such a terrible eye for talent.

Pretty slick hands...  ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajccFH87y0c

And it only took me about 10 minutes to find!

 

[bustaheims]

Under Carlyle, fighters fight, energy players bring energy, role players do their roles, skill players put up points.

How can anyone argue with that idea? It's what they're paid to do.

Well, leaving aside the debate about the contribution of fighting, the real truth is that the so-called fighters aren't really fighting, either. Orr has 5 fights this season, and 2 of those came in one game. So, he's done his supposed job in all of 4 games this season. Really, though, the bigger issue, and what LK is really getting at is that there is a double standard in terms of accountability with Carlyle - something that even guys like Dreger and McKenzie have noticed of late. It's a problem. Players notice these things, and when they recognize that the coach appears to play favourites, they tune him out. Every player on the team needs to be equally accountable for their errors and their struggles, but, right now, they're not. Guys like Orr are sort of the poster child for this issue. He's contributed basically nothing positive this season while being a significant liability defensively, and, yet, he hasn't seen his ice time decrease, he hasn't been a healthy scratch, etc. In fact, on many nights, he's seen his ice time go up, and, now, the coach has come out and confirmed that he'll be handed his lineup spot back, despite the fact that the guys who have replaced him have contributed more in a handful of games than Orr has in almost 2 years. To be successful, the team needs a 4th line that can contribute, whether it be on the scoreboard or through a solid forecheck or whatever. Orr doesn't help them do that. Guys like D'Amigo and Bodie do.

 

[mr grieves]

I love how down-right pathetic knuckle draggers get to live off the reputation of 5 years ago, meanwhile skilled players are expected to perform at all times under Carlyle.  What a joke. 

64 games (including 7 postseason) without a goal.
48 games (including 7 postseason) without a point.

I'm struggling to see what part of that indicates his earned roster spot.

Wow... you mean the coach expects skill players to put up points, grinders to grind, and sluggers to slug.

How often has Bodie fought this season? Orr?

Yeah, "earned" is a funny word to use.

It strikes me that Carlyle likes these dedicated role player types because he thinks the rest of the team rallies around them (Orrsy, how much we love him in the room) -- but, I dunno... Wouldn't it be nice to find ways of motivating players and cohering the room that don't involve what's essentially a rodeo clown? I'm sure the team mascot would delight players and fans alike. Why don't we try Carlton on the 4th line?

 

[L K]

I love how down-right pathetic knuckle draggers get to live off the reputation of 5 years ago, meanwhile skilled players are expected to perform at all times under Carlyle.  What a joke. 

64 games (including 7 postseason) without a goal.
48 games (including 7 postseason) without a point.

I'm struggling to see what part of that indicates his earned roster spot.

Wow... you mean the coach expects skill players to put up points, grinders to grind, and sluggers to slug.

I've never heard of that before  :

Clearly my only concern with Orr is that he is absolutely incompetent with the puck/offensively.  It has nothing to do with the fact that he's a fighter that has fought in 4 games.  It has nothing to do with the fact that he is supposed to be an energy guy but is too slow to actually provide any.  That he routinely has his line hemmed in their own zone despite starting in the neutral zone/offensive zone the majority of his ice-time. 

There are other, better 4th liners in the lineup right now.  That is what I have a problem with.  Orr doesn't score.  Barely fights and provides little else of benefit. 

 

[MetalRaven]

I recently watched the movie "goon" (good movie I thought there were some good funny parts) and one of the pieces of advice given to the main character (the goon) is "You're a goon, you're paid to fight, dont go thinking you're a hockey player" and thats whats wrong with rc. He is firm in his belief that Orr is a genuine hockey player that hits. Nonis needs to Trade Orr away and get a 3rd line player who can play hockey and occasionally fights. I like Orr, He punches faces good. However hes not a good hockey player, not better then the options we already have.

Its time to show RC some tough love, and take away his toys.

 

[Kin]

I recently watched the movie "goon" (good movie I thought there were some good funny parts) and one of the pieces of advice given to the main character (the goon) is "You're a goon, you're paid to fight, dont go thinking you're a hockey player" and thats whats wrong with rc. He is firm in his belief that Orr is a genuine hockey player that hits. Nonis needs to Trade Orr away and get a 3rd line player who can play hockey and occasionally fights. I like Orr, He punches faces good. However hes not a good hockey player, not better then the options we already have.

Its time to show RC some tough love, and take away his toys.

It's important not to confuse the symptom with the cause though. Carlyle isn't the only coach in the league who has a player like Orr and who gives him ample opportunities to be in the game. Carlyle's use of Orr isn't noteworthy in terms of ice time either, as Carlyle uses his face punchers about as much as other teams use theirs.

The issue with Carlyle, if you're gung ho about the team winning right now, is that he's not using his team and roster as effectively as possible  given their strengths and weaknesses. Orr isn't really a major factor there but, rather, he's an example of how Carlyle isn't changing things up in response to the wall they've hit.

 

[2badknees]

Reimer making 3rd straight start against Wings. I think there's a good chance he's being showcased. Nonis  knows he has to do something to shake up this group.

 

[bustaheims]

Reimer making 3rd straight start against Wings. I think there's a good chance he's being showcased. Nonis  knows he has to do something to shake up this group.

Bernier's injured. That's the reason Reimer's making his 3rd straight start. Nothing more.

 

[MetalRaven]

I recently watched the movie "goon" (good movie I thought there were some good funny parts) and one of the pieces of advice given to the main character (the goon) is "You're a goon, you're paid to fight, dont go thinking you're a hockey player" and thats whats wrong with rc. He is firm in his belief that Orr is a genuine hockey player that hits. Nonis needs to Trade Orr away and get a 3rd line player who can play hockey and occasionally fights. I like Orr, He punches faces good. However hes not a good hockey player, not better then the options we already have.

Its time to show RC some tough love, and take away his toys.

It's important not to confuse the symptom with the cause though. Carlyle isn't the only coach in the league who has a player like Orr and who gives him ample opportunities to be in the game. Carlyle's use of Orr isn't noteworthy in terms of ice time either, as Carlyle uses his face punchers about as much as other teams use theirs.

The issue with Carlyle, if you're gung ho about the team winning right now, is that he's not using his team and roster as effectively as possible  given their strengths and weaknesses. Orr isn't really a major factor there but, rather, he's an example of how Carlyle isn't changing things up in response to the wall they've hit.

Well thats what im saying, I don't find that Orr's ice time is particularly high, just too high for the situations were in on a night to night basis. Im not just gung ho about winning right now, im gung ho about them winning always. Losing sucks and I don't like it. Which is why rc's decisions to play Orr over the younger rookie players upsets me in two ways. I think I understand why he does it, Orr is more experienced and less likely to make rookie style mistakes, my counter point is this: (Right now) Lets assume losing 2-1, id still rather put a d'amigo on the ice in the hopes that he might score, then put on an Orr and know hes not going to score. If D'Amigo makes a mistake? Well, we tried to win it, but didn't and hopefully he learned something (Future). Young players need to make mistakes, and more importantly they need to know how to handle themselves in tight situations and be confident that they know whats expected of them. I don't think they are getting enough of that experience. I think Carlyle uses Orr as a form of experienced safety net over a higher risk gamble. The coach is responsible for who he puts on the ice, the GM is responsible for who he has to choose from. Nonis needs to take away that safety net cause its terrible (hockey player-wise I love Orr as an enforcer, hitting guy) and either replace it with something better or force the coach out of his comfort zone and get him to start choosing some high-risk high-reward rookie players.

Or we could all do some kinda mass-meditation thing and WILL Orr into becoming an awesome hockey player...I mean we do have a lot of people...

 

[lamajama]

I was listening to TSN radio this week and Simmons was a co-host. Ok I know most of you will stop reading right this instant BUT believe it or not he said something I found very stupid.

He said that RC believes his job is only to win. Not to develop players just to win. I disagree with that obviously, never mind the fact that he appears incapable of icing the proper lineup in order to do so by being so stubborn with Orr etc.

First let me say that the usual piranha TO media has morphed from creating non-existent issues (printing BS) and general muckraking into almost apologists for the club. In previous years the knives were out.

Then I reminded myself that most of these print guys have part time gigs working for the owners of the Maple Leafs.

 

[caver]

I recently watched the movie "goon" (good movie I thought there were some good funny parts) and one of the pieces of advice given to the main character (the goon) is "You're a goon, you're paid to fight, dont go thinking you're a hockey player" and thats whats wrong with rc. He is firm in his belief that Orr is a genuine hockey player that hits. Nonis needs to Trade Orr away and get a 3rd line player who can play hockey and occasionally fights. I like Orr, He punches faces good. However hes not a good hockey player, not better then the options we already have.

Its time to show RC some tough love, and take away his toys.

It's important not to confuse the symptom with the cause though. Carlyle isn't the only coach in the league who has a player like Orr and who gives him ample opportunities to be in the game. Carlyle's use of Orr isn't noteworthy in terms of ice time either, as Carlyle uses his face punchers about as much as other teams use theirs.

The issue with Carlyle, if you're gung ho about the team winning right now, is that he's not using his team and roster as effectively as possible  given their strengths and weaknesses. Orr isn't really a major factor there but, rather, he's an example of how Carlyle isn't changing things up in response to the wall they've hit.

Carlyle must feel that his team is best suited to be a 3 line team while giving the 4th line minimal minutes. He can make up McClement's ice time on the PK.

 

[Bullfrog]

Carlyle must feel that his team is best suited to be a 3 line team while giving the 4th line minimal minutes. He can make up McClement's ice time on the PK.

But that's of his own making. He doesn't have to play McLaren and Orr. He's got options that are easily capable of playing 6 to 9 minutes.

 

[Captain Canuck]

Carlyle must feel that his team is best suited to be a 3 line team while giving the 4th line minimal minutes. He can make up McClement's ice time on the PK.

But that's of his own making. He doesn't have to play McLaren and Orr. He's got options that are easily capable of playing 6 to 9 minutes.

Yeah and this is what almost cost us the Coyotes game IMO. You can't say there is no correlation between a late 3rd period goal and playing your 4th line 2:30 a game! The forwards were standing around by then because they were tired and its a direct result of giving the 4th liners squat for ice time.

 

[Highlander]

Why should your 4th line just be goons and lug nuts?.we saw what D'Amigo and Brodie can do or why not at a scoring threat in Leivo

 

[hockeyfan1]

Looks like Kessel needs his man...

Kessel was held without a goal for the eighth time in 10 games since Bozak went out with his oblique injury. The star winger has two goals and five assists in that time.

Source:  Sportsnet

 

[Highlander]

Play him with Holland till Bozo comes back

 

[Arn]

Just watching some ECHL this evening. Orlando v Greenville. Garrett Sparks in goal for Orlando. Is he still a leafs prospect? He's played well so far. Any other Leaf prospects on the Orlando roster?

 

[Captain Canuck]

Just watching some ECHL this evening. Orlando v Greenville. Garrett Sparks in goal for Orlando. Is he still a leafs prospect? He's played well so far. Any other Leaf prospects on the Orlando roster?

Yeah he is still a Leafs prospect. I'm hopeful he makes it back up to the Marlies because he was a pretty good goalie when he played junior here.
The only other Leafs prospect that I know of on the Solar Bears is Zach Yuen who plays defence.

 

[mr grieves]

Looks like Kessel needs his man...

Kessel was held without a goal for the eighth time in 10 games since Bozak went out with his oblique injury. The star winger has two goals and five assists in that time.

Source:  Sportsnet

I dunno. For a while there, he looked like he was playing injured. He's getting as many, if not more, chances, but he's not finishing them. And it seems he's being lazier defensively than he was earlier in the season. It seems to me that most of what's been ailing Phil has been his own slump.