Jake Gardiner

[Corn Flake]

My concern is that Carlyle seems to have no faith in Gardiner to let him play through mistakes, and that he has such influence over the roster that Gardiner won't be given the opportunity to reach his high ceiling as a Leaf.

I don't think at this point they would trade him, but I'm not entirely confident in saying that.

Did he have no faith in him when he played him 25 mins in the playoffs last year?

What about the 21 mins he played on saturday?

Does he have to play every other shift, all PP and PK time, last minute of every game and maybe play some goal before we believe Carlyle likes the kid?

This is so overblown it's ridiculous.

No, it's based on it taking Carlyle until the playoffs last season to do what everyone was screaming for him to do - play Gardiner.

Everyone including Gardiner himself has said he wasn't ready to play last year.

 

[Corn Flake]

Last season though, Gardiner was coming off that concussion and by all accounts he wasn't the same player at the Marlies for a good long while.  He finally got his game together, had that famous agent #FreeJakeGardiner tweet and finally got into the lineup.  Carlyle then used him ALOT in the Boston series, so if he plays well, Carlyle has no issues playing big minutes out of him.

And Gardiner has not returned to the form he showed in the playoffs when he did play.  So when he does I'm sure Carlyle will stop putting the screws to him.

I think part of it is they see and know how freaking good this kid can be and those expectations drive their efforts to push him to get to that place and stay there.  He just needs to figure out how to play at that level every night and then I'm sure he will be logging 25 mins every night, probably on the top pair.

 

[Zee]

Last season though, Gardiner was coming off that concussion and by all accounts he wasn't the same player at the Marlies for a good long while.  He finally got his game together, had that famous agent #FreeJakeGardiner tweet and finally got into the lineup.  Carlyle then used him ALOT in the Boston series, so if he plays well, Carlyle has no issues playing big minutes out of him.

And Gardiner has not returned to the form he showed in the playoffs when he did play.  So when he does I'm sure Carlyle will stop putting the screws to him.

I think part of it is they see and know how freaking good this kid can be and those expectations drive their efforts to push him to get to that place and stay there.  He just needs to figure out how to play at that level every night and then I'm sure he will be logging 25 mins every night, probably on the top pair.

He seems to not know when to jump into the play sometimes.  I think if the Leafs are tied or up in a game, settle down Jake and stay back more. If the Leafs are behind a goal, go ahead and try the pinch/rush up the ice to create offense.  He has to make his game more simple, I realize he figures he can score every time but the more he gets burned the more Carlyle will hate him.

 

[Stickytape]

Yeah, I also worry that Carlyle is being a bit too hard on Gardiner, and that he's going to give him a similar treatment as he gave to Grabovski.  Hopefully Gardiner knows to keep his mouth shut and just look for his opportunity to prove himself again.

in 1 of the 3 games played he had under 14 mins of ice time. The other two were 19 mins and 21 mins.  So one game where he got "benched" for a while.  so what?

Treated like Grabbo?  Carlyle and Grabbo were apparently not on speaking terms.  There's a clip of Carlyle and Gardiner from last week going through video together, talking and working out tweaks to his game.

O-VER-BLOWN.

I highlighted where I originally said "going to", as in Carlyle hasn't yet given Gardiner the Grabbo treatment - but I worry that he might in future.

I even noted in the exact same post that Gardiner got 21+ minutes against Ottawa, and I'm thankful for it.

Please read more carefully in future before you completely dismiss someone's opinion.

 

[Zee]

If Gardiner is compared to Leetch, let?s not forget that Leetch was mistake prone as well. This happens quite a bit with offensive minded D-men. Do you remeber Coffey, Murphy even Housley to certain extent they all made quite a lot of defensive mistakes. Their offense was however superb. If Gardiners turns out into Leetch, I will be extremely happy. Sure it would be better to have another Al MacInnis or Nik Lidstrom, but those were unique players.

Rielly is compared to Leetch.  Gardiner is not. At least not that I've heard.

Based on his draft position and all reports about him, you hope that Rielly has top-end talent like Leetch.  I'd be ecstatic if he turned out that good.  Gardiner is an unknown at this point, I don't think anyone knows what his ceiling is for offense.

 

[Corn Flake]

If Gardiner is compared to Leetch, let?s not forget that Leetch was mistake prone as well. This happens quite a bit with offensive minded D-men. Do you remeber Coffey, Murphy even Housley to certain extent they all made quite a lot of defensive mistakes. Their offense was however superb. If Gardiners turns out into Leetch, I will be extremely happy. Sure it would be better to have another Al MacInnis or Nik Lidstrom, but those were unique players.

Rielly is compared to Leetch.  Gardiner is not. At least not that I've heard.

Based on his draft position and all reports about him, you hope that Rielly has top-end talent like Leetch.  I'd be ecstatic if he turned out that good.  Gardiner is an unknown at this point, I don't think anyone knows what his ceiling is for offense.

After spending quite a bit of time scouting and researching him after the Leafs drafted him, I was pretty much convinced he has the same skill set that Leetch had and does a lot of things similar to him, especially in the defensive zone.  A few others, including his coach in Moose Jaw, said the same thing.

That isn't to say he is going to go on to have a Hall of Fame career like Leetch did, but he has the types of attributes to be that type of player.

I think the biggest difference I see between Rielly and Gardiner is an intelligence level. Rielly just seems to have a calmness and a "yeah I know what to do here" kind of way about him where Gardiner can get erratic and run around a lot.  This isn't just based on NHL performance.. based on how Rielly has played in junior.  He doesn't get rattled at all.... an attribute Leetch had in spades.

 

[hockeyfan1]

I think the biggest difference I see between Rielly and Gardiner is an intelligence level. Rielly just seems to have a calmness and a "yeah I know what to do here" kind of way about him where Gardiner can get erratic and run around a lot. This isn't just based on NHL performance.. based on how Rielly has played in junior.  He doesn't get rattled at all.... an attribute Leetch had in spades.

Could this be attributable as well to a sense of hockey (& character) 'maturity' and confidence on Reilly's part, and a lack thereof on Gardiner's?

 

[Coco-puffs]

I think the biggest difference I see between Rielly and Gardiner is an intelligence level. Rielly just seems to have a calmness and a "yeah I know what to do here" kind of way about him where Gardiner can get erratic and run around a lot.  This isn't just based on NHL performance.. based on how Rielly has played in junior.  He doesn't get rattled at all.... an attribute Leetch had in spades.

I think you are pretty bang on with your assessment.  Leetch's Hockey IQ was off the charts- he always seemed to make pretty good decisions (for the most part- even the best make mistakes).  And I think that is the main difference between Reilly and Gardiner.  Reilly has a hockey IQ that might just be as high as Leetch's.  Gardiner doesn't. 

From my perspective... skating wise and skill wise, Reilly and Gardiner are pretty much on par.  What sets them apart is Hockey IQ.  Where to position one-self, when to join the rush, when to lug the puck up the ice vs when to pass it up, and having good anticipation.

Reilly needs a bit more time to adjust to the speed and physical side of the NHL game but he already thinks the game well, while Gardiner is still a coaching project in terms of making the right decisions. 

I think Reilly will manage to adjust to the speed this season- the question Nonis and Carlyle will continue to ask themselves until his 9 games are up is whether he can adjust to the physical side at just 19.

 

[Corn Flake]

I think Reilly will manage to adjust to the speed this season- the question Nonis and Carlyle will continue to ask themselves until his 9 games are up is whether he can adjust to the physical side at just 19.

the thing is, Rielly is already very mature physically. He's over 200 lbs and showed at the draft combine he had very developed upper body strength.  Assume some of that came from being off for most of his draft season, unable to do anything lower body due to the knee.  Where we waited a long time for Kadri to mature physically, Rielly already seems to be there, or very very close to it.

Next 4-5 games will be telling.  If Rielly is ready, I think that could expedite Jake moving on.  Part of me wonders if you should make that move before other teams realize that Jake's hockey IQ may not match up with his skill level.

 

[lamajama]

Welcome to this year's whipping boy.  :

We (the collective "we") will be driving this kid outta town.

 

[mc]

What is Gardiner's value? Hypothetically, who could he be traded for one for one?

 

[Crucialness Key]

What is Gardiner's value? Hypothetically, who could he be traded for one for one?

I'd accept Antropov, Colaiacovo, and a 1st.   

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Pretty much the only way you can trade him is for another player on an ELC and I doubt that is happening, maybe a more physical guy like Reinhart would be more agreeable to Carlyle, but I doubt this happens.

Mirtle summed it up really well, pretty much have to live through the growing pains given the cap situation, there is no way he is traded for draft picks imo, even though I think Carlyle would take that offer and replace him with MacWilliam.

 

[Jalili]

Keep in mind, deals may take months or even a year to finalize.

It sounds like they're testing the waters now but I would be shocked, given their cap situation, if he was dealt before next summer.

Gardiner will have the season to prove himself, that much I'm sure of.

 

[Corn Flake]

What is Gardiner's value? Hypothetically, who could he be traded for one for one?

I'd accept Antropov, Colaiacovo, and a 1st.   

*pushes Crucialness off a cliff*

 

[Corn Flake]

Welcome to this year's whipping boy.  :

We (the collective "we") will be driving this kid outta town.

I think it's the opposite, actually.  Fans love Jake.  Look at how much hate Carlyle gets for not playing him in game 1 last year and not "seeing what the fans see"???!!

Bozak is the whipping boy and probably will be until he's gone.

 

[Beowulf]

Pretty much the only way you can trade him is for another player on an ELC and I doubt that is happening, maybe a more physical guy like Reinhart would be more agreeable to Carlyle, but I doubt this happens.

Mirtle summed it up really well, pretty much have to live through the growing pains given the cap situation, there is no way he is traded for draft picks imo, even though I think Carlyle would take that offer and replace him with MacWilliam.

x2, Mirtle's summation was very good indeed.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/leafs-beat/could-the-leafs-really-trade-jake-gardiner/article14740880/

Apologies if it's already been posted.

 

[mr grieves]

Pretty much the only way you can trade him is for another player on an ELC and I doubt that is happening, maybe a more physical guy like Reinhart would be more agreeable to Carlyle, but I doubt this happens.

Mirtle summed it up really well, pretty much have to live through the growing pains given the cap situation, there is no way he is traded for draft picks imo, even though I think Carlyle would take that offer and replace him with MacWilliam.

x2, Mirtle's summation was very good indeed.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/leafs-beat/could-the-leafs-really-trade-jake-gardiner/article14740880/

Apologies if it's already been posted.

Yeah, I saw this too. And, while I agree with Nik's view that one of Franson, Gardiner, or Rielly will eventually be moved, I can't see how they can do it this season, if the intent is to get a return that bolsters an area of weakness.

 

[Redleaf]

What is Gardiner's value? Hypothetically, who could he be traded for one for one?

I think that's kind of the purpose of this excercise really. (Listening to offers)

IF, they are getting names thrown at them like Yakupov, or Eberle, then Nonis would have to seriously consider such a trade, otherwise you put the offers in your back pocket for a while and develop Gardiner. I think he is going to be a fantastic offensive defenceman. But, ever since they traded Schenn, they have been lacking that big talented 'defense first' D man. No matter what they do up front, they still need to find that guy for the back end.

 

[Redleaf]

They should trade Gardiner, Reimer, Liles and Kadri for the Schenn brothers.

I'll show myself out...