John Scott traded to MTL for Jarred Tinordi

[GhostofPotvin29]

It's as definitive (and I'd say much more so since I think Friedman's word holds a lot of weight) as anyone else who has assumed the NHL stepped in and did something.

The other side of this argument though really didn't get going until Bob McKenzie said he believed the Yotes were doing the NHL a solid here. His word holds a lot of weight too.

Maybe I'm remembering wrong but I don't think that's what McKenzie said.  Unless he did a separate article or something I missed out on.

 

[Kin]

It's as definitive (and I'd say much more so since I think Friedman's word holds a lot of weight) as anyone else who has assumed the NHL stepped in and did something.

More than McKenzie? Who said that he absolutely thinks the NHL was involved in orchestrating the deal? Seems like there's more than enough there for people to lean whichever way they're inclined.

 

[bustaheims]

It's as definitive (and I'd say much more so since I think Friedman's word holds a lot of weight) as anyone else who has assumed the NHL stepped in and did something.

The other side of this argument though really didn't get going until Bob McKenzie said he believed the Yotes were doing the NHL a solid here. His word holds a lot of weight too.

Yeah, but that really just makes it a "He said, she said" type situation. There's no real evidence on either side that trumps that of the other.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Anybody who thought the league played any role is not likely to be swayed by anything that comes out now.

Yeah I mean I'm definitely not going to deny that. You wondered why the NHL was still getting heat, and that's why.

Really the only way the NHL could have gotten on top of this would have been to announce that Scott's All-Star captaincy wasn't going to be effected by this trade when the trade happened. Or at least that same day. I mean, clearly the NHL was aware of these trade discussions, so they would have had plenty of time to come to (what should have been) the logical decision here.

Instead, they waited, and they waited, and they waited, and 4 days later after basically every sports media outlet and every social media platform crucified them they finally said "hey, what are you all angry about, of course John Scott's still an all-star!"

 

[Kin]

Then to me it's no different from any conspiracy theory - no matter what is said there will be a way to twist it to mean what you or any other person wants it to mean.  Anybody who thought the league played any role is not likely to be swayed by anything that comes out now.  John Scott can't melt steel beams.

Except there's no doubt that the NHL A) weren't happy with Scott's election and B) worked behind the scenes to try and squash it(by asking him to bow out voluntarily). So it's not like this is being just entirely invented out of whole cloth.

Also, it probably differs from most conspiracy theories in the sense that nobody is accusing the NHL of anything here outside of being jerks here when there's already ample things for anyone who feels that way to base it on. It's not like the league asking a team to make a meaningless trade would violate some law or sacred compact. It's "The NHL are jerks, they've been jerks about this entire process, so I believe they did one additional jerky thing".

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Except there's no doubt that the NHL A) weren't happy with Scott's election and B) worked behind the scenes to try and squash it(by asking him to bow out voluntarily). So it's not like this is being just entirely invented out of whole cloth.

And basically everyone has confirmed that the Habs wanted nothing to do with John Scott.

 

[Kin]

Except there's no doubt that the NHL A) weren't happy with Scott's election and B) worked behind the scenes to try and squash it(by asking him to bow out voluntarily). So it's not like this is being just entirely invented out of whole cloth.

And basically everyone has confirmed that the Habs wanted nothing to do with John Scott.

Also, the third team involved with the trade was the team hosting the All-Star game whose GM had publicly stated that they didn't want John Scott there. But that is where we're getting into speculation.

 

[bustaheims]

Except there's no doubt that the NHL A) weren't happy with Scott's election and B) worked behind the scenes to try and squash it(by asking him to bow out voluntarily). So it's not like this is being just entirely invented out of whole cloth.

And basically everyone has confirmed that the Habs wanted nothing to do with John Scott.

Yeah, but there's also a much stronger argument that the Coyotes simply didn't want to pay him that much to play in the minors, knowing that they were likely sending Downie there in the next few days. If this move was made by a team that didn't have longstanding financial issues, I think there'd be more weight to the ASG argument, but, with the Coyotes history and situation, trying to save a few hundred grand is the more believable story-line to me.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Except there's no doubt that the NHL A) weren't happy with Scott's election and B) worked behind the scenes to try and squash it(by asking him to bow out voluntarily). So it's not like this is being just entirely invented out of whole cloth.

And basically everyone has confirmed that the Habs wanted nothing to do with John Scott.

Right, but clearly the Coyotes were not happy with Scott being their lone representative at the game either.  It's just as likely that they were the main ones pushing to get him out rather than the NHL.  From that same Friedman 30 Thoughts:

According to several sources, a major internal problem was brewing. It?s been reported some players were upset more deserving teammates weren?t going to Nashville. I?ve received conflicting information about that, with a few people (including Maloney) denying it ? although I do think the team would like to see Shane Doan go in what could be his final season. But Doan?s downplayed it, so no one?s made it a big issue.

The real problem was the roster. There was no one else to drop. He was the most logical candidate and the Coyotes were at the point where they couldn?t justify any other move.

Then came Tinordi.

I?ve heard from multiple places Scott came to this deal late, which means you can think either a) it?s a conspiracy, Scott was banished and Montreal did everyone a favour, or b) the Coyotes, knowing Steve Downie?s $1.75M was going to the minors days later, didn?t want Scott?s $575,000 there too, and Canadiens GM Marc Bergevin, although annoyed beyond belief, did it to end the Tinordi saga.

I?m going with the latter option, and one of the reasons I think the NHL?s been so quiet is that it wanted Arizona to wait, worried the storm was coming.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-its-time-to-move-on-from-the-john-scott-saga/

 

[Kin]

Except there's no doubt that the NHL A) weren't happy with Scott's election and B) worked behind the scenes to try and squash it(by asking him to bow out voluntarily). So it's not like this is being just entirely invented out of whole cloth.

And basically everyone has confirmed that the Habs wanted nothing to do with John Scott.

Yeah, but there's also a much stronger argument that the Coyotes simply didn't want to pay him that much to play in the minors, knowing that they were likely sending Downie there in the next few days. If this move was made by a team that didn't have longstanding financial issues, I think there'd be more weight to the ASG argument, but, with the Coyotes history and situation, trying to save a few hundred grand is the more believable story-line to me.

Feels like that would hold more sway if they didn't make the pretty fiscally irresponsible decision of giving him the one way deal they did in the first place.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Also, the third team involved with the trade was the team hosting the All-Star game whose GM had publicly stated that they didn't want John Scott there. But that is where we're getting into speculation.

Hah, I actually had never thought of that before/heard that in connection to this. You're right though that where you really start to get into the speculation game.

I'm really not your typical conspiracy buff, I believe that we went to the moon and that terrorists were responsible for 9/11. I don't really think that this is as big of a conspiracy as people on either side of the argument are making it out to be.

These are the facts:

1) Arizona didn't want John Scott at the ASG
2) The NHL didn't want John Scott at the ASG
3) Arizona traded John Scott to a team that had absolutely no use for him, therefore making him an AHL player

This is the completely wacky speculation part:

1) Arizona thought that by doing this it would make Scott ineligible for the game and therefore give the NHL the opportunity to add a more deserving Coyote player, something both Arizona and the NHL wanted

That's basically it. No one is suggesting that Gary Bettman made the trade himself or forced Arizona to deal a player they didn't want to deal.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I would have actually had less of a problem with this if the NHL pulled a Rory Fitzpatrick and just made a bunch of votes completely disappear before making things official. But they didn't. They announced to the world that through a system that they themselves devised that John Scott would be a captain at the All-Star game. Unless Scott himself pulls out or stops playing in a NHL-affiliated league, they have to honour that. It's a no-brainer.

 

[Kin]

They announced to the world that through a system that they themselves devised that John Scott would be a captain at the All-Star game.

And that's the thing that, for me, takes it out of the realm of it being even a conspiracy theory in the first place. It's not like this sprang out of nowhere for the NHL. From Fitzpatrick to Girgenson to even Mike Komisarek, the NHL had a pretty solid wealth of evidence that these things happen. They just never considered its logical extreme. Then, when it was clear that Scott was a good possibility to be elected, they didn't decide "Hey, we screwed up, let's at least have some fun with this" they tried to pressure John Scott to not go. If someone does 5 stupid things in a row, thinking they might do a 6th isn't exactly the stuff Watergate was made of.

This all would have been such a smaller story if the hockey establishment hadn't reacted to this like voting for John Scott was such a tragedy of biblical proportions. Scott would have gone to the game and a week after it happened people would forget it like they forget every all-star game outside of a "hey, remember that one time John Scott went to the All-Star game and it was slightly more of a trainwreck than it is every year?".

Now? Scott is going to a game where people have gone out of their way to tell him they don't want him and the people who voted for him are alternately being told by members of said establishment that they're either terrible people because voting for Scott got him traded and sent down to the AHL or being told they're stupid people for believing that voting for Scott got him traded and sent down to the AHL.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Scott is going to a game where people have gone out of their way to tell him they don't want him and the people who voted for him are alternately being told by members of said establishment that they're either terrible people because voting for Scott got him traded and sent down to the AHL or being told they're stupid people for believing that voting for Scott got him traded and sent down to the AHL.

Don't forget they're also terrible and stupid for even voting for Scott in the first place. Sportnet's Lead Insider Damien Cox told me so.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Speak of the devil: http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/john-scott-can-still-right-the-pranksters-wrong/

I tried to find portions to quote, but it's really just all gold.

 

[bustaheims]

Speak of the devil: http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/john-scott-can-still-right-the-pranksters-wrong/

I tried to find portions to quote, but it's really just all gold.

Wow. I mean, as much as I agree that the whole John Scott, NHL All Star thing is stupid . . . the whole All Star Game is stupid. It's not like it's a venerable institution (despite the fact that it was initially conceived as a charitable cause). It's already an embarrassment. This situation didn't make things any worse.

And, of course, as usual, Cox misses the point - the whole point of the fiasco was the show how ridiculous the ASG has become and how absurd the league's fan voting strategies are.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

I want to set this thread on fire.

 

[LuncheonMeat]

I very rarely watch even part of the All Star game. To be honest, I was looking forward to watching Scott play in the 3-on-3 tourney. I'm glad he gets to go now, and I'd love to see him/his team win the $1M.

 

[Kin]

Speak of the devil: http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/john-scott-can-still-right-the-pranksters-wrong/

I tried to find portions to quote, but it's really just all gold.

I am happy to have my position on this matter judged based on who it's making the maddest.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

[tweet]690227223421415424[/tweet]

Be less weird about this, Bergevin.