Komarov in deep do-do with the law in Finland

[Bates]

I really wouldn't expect that but my point is that to fine a high end car driver huge sums of money for going 15 kph over the limit is a revenue move and not really a safety move. 

That's why I included car and driver in my post.  Police these days do almost nothing to people with poor driving habits and pick the low hanging fruit(speeding) for revenue. 

If speed limits were truly about safety cars and drivers would have different speed limits.  How does it make sense that new Porsche has the same limit as a 1984 Aries K car?

I have the equivalent of the K car, but my driving skills are so top notch that I shouldn't have any limits imposed on me. My brother-in-law, who drives a Porsche coincidentally, is a terrible driver. I wouldn't get into any car with him.

I wouldn't trust their ability to measure a driver's skill and then apply different rules to that driver as opposed to another driver. Then again I would, as long as I can slip him a twenty to ensure I get to speed!

 

[Kin]

So a car that can turn better and stop in half the distance of another should therefore be able to safely drive faster than the other car??

No, yes, it's a fine idea. Each car should have it's own individual speed limit based not only on make and model, but also on the year and general condition.

That'll really stick it to all of those bureaucrats.

 

[Bates]

Or we could use some common sense and put speed limits at a reasonable level based on the fact that technology has made cars significantly safer while speed limits have stayed the same.  Northern Ontario is 90 km speed limit???  Just last year BC increased a bunch of highways to 120 kph yet I don't seem to reading anything about the increase in accidents??  Speed limits are about revenue.

So a car that can turn better and stop in half the distance of another should therefore be able to safely drive faster than the other car??

No, yes, it's a fine idea. Each car should have it's own individual speed limit based not only on make and model, but also on the year and general condition.

That'll really stick it to all of those bureaucrats.

 

[Bill_Berg]

I really wouldn't expect that but my point is that to fine a high end car driver huge sums of money for going 15 kph over the limit is a revenue move and not really a safety move. 

That's why I included car and driver in my post.  Police these days do almost nothing to people with poor driving habits and pick the low hanging fruit(speeding) for revenue. 

If speed limits were truly about safety cars and drivers would have different speed limits.  How does it make sense that new Porsche has the same limit as a 1984 Aries K car?

I have the equivalent of the K car, but my driving skills are so top notch that I shouldn't have any limits imposed on me. My brother-in-law, who drives a Porsche coincidentally, is a terrible driver. I wouldn't get into any car with him.

I wouldn't trust their ability to measure a driver's skill and then apply different rules to that driver as opposed to another driver. Then again I would, as long as I can slip him a twenty to ensure I get to speed!

It's not higher fines for higher end cars, it's higher fines based on income. The guy could make 5 million a year and pay a hefty fine in a K-car too.

 

[Bates]

Just as an example of this silliness in regards to safety, let's say Komorov in his Range Rover was driving next to a minimum wage worker in his K car.  Both were driving 20 kph over the speed limit.  Komorov in his much safer vehicle gets a $60K fine and the K car driver gets a $50 fine.  This all makes perfect sense from a safety perspective right?? 

 

[moon111]

Not once did I feel, dang, I shouldn't have been doing that.

That might be a you problem then.

I think drivers who do the speed limit all the time are dangerous.  You see transports trying to pass them on the 401 and the danger level of the entire highway just increased.  Don't tailgate.  Drive with traffic.  Move out of the way for faster vehicles.  Don't speed in residential areas.  Slow down while cresting hills, corners, or weather conditions that limit my vision.  I drive 15 hours a week.  In 30 years of driving, I've had one accident involving a very stupid drunk driver that drove right into traffic.  My reaction time in those 5 feet probably saved their life.  Speeding tickets should be a useful tool for people going too fast in stupid situations.  Unfortunately, they're just used to generate revenue.

 

[Kin]

Or we could use some common sense and put speed limits at a reasonable level based on the fact that technology has made cars significantly safer while speed limits have stayed the same

What the speed limit should be is a different question than how to fine the people who exceed it. Tying it to income just reflects the basic and elemental reality that says that the severity of a punishment is only determined by its actual effect on someone's life. A year in jail is a year in in jail whether you're rich or poor. 250 dollars is not the same thing to all people.

 

[TML fan]

So a car that can turn better and stop in half the distance of another should therefore be able to safely drive faster than the other car???

If speed limits were truly about safety cars and drivers would have different speed limits.  How does it make sense that new Porsche has the same limit as a 1984 Aries K car?

Speed limits are about giving you the best reaction time possible while still keeping traffic moving at a good pace,

No.

 

[Kin]

This all makes perfect sense from a safety perspective right??

Yes because, again, the purpose is for these fines to act as a deterrent. How would Komorov react to a 50 dollar fine? What impact would it have on him? A 50 dollar fine would probably severely cut into a minimum wage worker's grocery budget for that week.

 

[Frank E]

This all makes perfect sense from a safety perspective right??

Yes because, again, the purpose is for these fines to act as a deterrent. How would Komorov react to a 50 dollar fine? What impact would it have on him? A 50 dollar fine would probably severely cut into a minimum wage worker's grocery budget for that week.

It's about revenue generation Nik, not deterrents.

If it were about deterrents, they'd do what they do elsewhere:  you lose your license if you get a few tickets.

The fines are about revenue, and they're trotted out as deterrents because they can't say it's all about revenue.

 

[Kin]

It's about revenue generation Nik, not deterrents.

Sure it is buddy.

 

[Bullfrog]

It's about revenue generation Nik, not deterrents.

If it were about deterrents, they'd do what they do elsewhere:  you lose your license if you get a few tickets.

The fines are about revenue, and they're trotted out as deterrents because they can't say it's all about revenue.

Can't they be about both? I mean, they could cut off a finger for every offense as a decent deterrent, but the government wouldn't gain revenue from that.

 

[Frank E]

It's about revenue generation Nik, not deterrents.

If it were about deterrents, they'd do what they do elsewhere:  you lose your license if you get a few tickets.

The fines are about revenue, and they're trotted out as deterrents because they can't say it's all about revenue.

Can't they be about both? I mean, they could cut off a finger for every offense as a decent deterrent, but the government wouldn't gain revenue from that.

No, it can't be both.  Pick a side.

 

[Bullfrog]

But I dislike conflict.

I'm wishy-washy damn it!

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Given that it's wealthier people who are more likely to be driving the cars that can exceed the speed limit by a great deal it makes a ton of sense to scale the tickets accordingly.

Yeah, that's pretty false.

Pretty much everything bought today does over 100mph, comfortably.

There isn't anything further unsafe about a wealthy guy driving a car at 100mph vs. a less fortunate person doing the same.  It's just a tax revenue stream that preys on the wealthy, full-stop.  It has nothing to do with the cars they drive.

I'm OK with it.

Seven studies using experimental and naturalistic methods reveal that upper-class individuals behave more unethically than lower-class individuals. In studies 1 and 2, upper-class individuals were more likely to break the law while driving, relative to lower-class individuals.  In follow-up laboratory studies, upper-class individuals were more likely to exhibit unethical decision-making tendencies (study 3), take valued goods from others (study 4), lie in a negotiation (study 5), cheat to increase their chances of winning a prize (study 6), and endorse unethical behavior at work (study 7) than were lower-class individuals. Mediator and moderator data demonstrated that upper-class individuals? unethical tendencies are accounted for, in part, by their more favorable attitudes toward greed.

http://www.pnas.org/content/109/11/4086.short

 

[ZBBM]

Well, this is quite the interesting thread.  Never in my life have I heard someone argue that abiding by speed limits is dangerous.

 

[Highlander]

Yes but it is all perspective, around Collingwood you never drive over 80 K, most roads are 60K so its like driving in Snailville.  In Arizona and many of the southern states the speed limits on highways are anywhere from 75MPH or 80MHP equivalent of 120 to almost 130K whilst we have 100K.
On the many main roads of Scottsdale or Phoenix you can safely drive 50-60MPH right in the city, not 30MPH.
In Germany there is no speed limit on the Autobauhn's. 
We are under the thumb here in Canada so bad with so many limits to our freedoms, so lets be treated the children they think we are. 

 

[Kin]

In Germany there is no speed limit on the Autobauhn's. 

That's actually not true.

 

[bustaheims]

In Germany there is no speed limit on the Autobauhn's. 

That's only true for a small section of it.

 

[bustaheims]

If speed limits were truly about safety cars and drivers would have different speed limits.  How does it make sense that new Porsche has the same limit as a 1984 Aries K car?

Because the concerns are about everyone's safety. If different cars had different speed limits, the roads would be a complete mad house. It would be a completely untenable system. All cars have the same speed limit so that the overall safety of all drivers and pedestrians can be maximized. A Porsche driving at or near the speed limit is no less safe than one doing double the speed limit. Being able to afford a car with a more powerful engine shouldn't afford you any extra rights on the road. That's the exact opposite of an equitable system.