Kyle Dubas is new Leafs GM

[CarltonTheBear]

That said, you really can't blame Hunter if he wants to move on. If he wants to GM a NHL team someday it's understandable if he wouldn't want to stick around a place where the guy with the job has only barely started shaving.

I'm curious to see where he goes next. If his goal was to become a NHL GM someday I really do think staying with the Leafs could have been his best play. It's a time on the rise and he would have been in a giant media spotlight as well. If he goes to become an AGM somewhere else he has to start the process all over again. So if he's leaving here for some other NHL team then it seems clear to me it's mostly because he's upset that he was passed over for the GM job. Which I guess is understandable but whatever, don't let the door hit him on the way out if that's the case.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Steve Simmons (I know) brought up an interestingly possibility for someone who could replace Hunter/Lou in the front office: Chuck Fletcher. There's no open GM spots in the league at the moment, so if he wants to find work somewhere it'll have to be in a lesser role .The connection here is obviously his dad still "works" for the Leafs.

I'd look to bring in a guy him either him or Ron Francis and then someone else from the CHL who deserves a promotion to the big leagues to fill the old roles of Hunter and Dubas.

 

[herman]

http://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/23573251/nhl-brendan-shanahan-defends-general-manager-kyle-dubas-mark-hunter-lou-lamoriello-leave-toronto-maple-leafs

ESPN: What have your conversations with Kyle been like in the last week? Was there ever a moment when you had to kind of say, 'Hey, don't take any of this personally?'

Shanahan: No, no. Kyle is a pro. People keep focusing on his age a little less than his experience. I think he understands the way this works. It's been four years with the Maple Leafs. Our conversations have really been about what we do going forward. He knows the organization as much as anybody. He's helped me build a lot of the infrastructure around him, whether it's the R&D or player development or the sports science ... these were all challenges handed to Kyle that he handled for us.

The organization, as it's built currently, Kyle has been an important architect of it. Like I said before, I have the ability to look behind closed doors and see decisions that were made and decisions that weren't made. Seeing where people stood in those decisions. I felt very comfortable I was making my decision based on what I've seen here with the Leafs.

I had trouble just pulling one answer to highlight.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Shanny's a pretty great interviewee.

 

[herman]

Shanny's a pretty great interviewee.

You?re right.

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2018/05/22/brendan-shanahan-im-not-bringing-a-guy-in-from-the-outside-and-hoping-that-he-and-mike-babcock-get-along-ive-seen-mike-and-kyle-for-three-plus-years-now/

You couldn?t have kept the band together?

Shanahan: I don?t think that?s realistic. I say that out of fairness to them. When people do a good job, especially in Toronto ? with the media we have here and the spotlight that is here ? people from other organizations want them. Other owners call. Other GMs call. I think it was a matter of, again, I don?t necessarily believe in the premise of sitting back and waiting for something to break before you fix it. If you wait for something to break in the NHL, that can cost you five, ten years of development. My job, as I see it, is to oversee the organization and make these decisions before they break.

 

[sickbeast]

I honestly think the whole thing with Dubas is either going to go really well or else really badly. It's a real trial by fire for him. He's either going to sink or swim. We'll see. I am cautiously optimistic personally. His stat knowledge is impressive. But there is something to be said for Lou's years of experience running a team. Things like trades and negotiations worry me somewhat with Dubas. We'll see. I was not happy with what Lou did at the end of this season. He should have stocked assets.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Shanny's a pretty great interviewee.

You?re right.

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2018/05/22/brendan-shanahan-im-not-bringing-a-guy-in-from-the-outside-and-hoping-that-he-and-mike-babcock-get-along-ive-seen-mike-and-kyle-for-three-plus-years-now/

You couldn?t have kept the band together?

Shanahan: I don?t think that?s realistic. I say that out of fairness to them. When people do a good job, especially in Toronto ? with the media we have here and the spotlight that is here ? people from other organizations want them. Other owners call. Other GMs call. I think it was a matter of, again, I don?t necessarily believe in the premise of sitting back and waiting for something to break before you fix it. If you wait for something to break in the NHL, that can cost you five, ten years of development. My job, as I see it, is to oversee the organization and make these decisions before they break.

This interview was noteworthy to me because in it he talked a little about the Dubas-to-Colorado situation. Shanny, completely unprompted in any way, said Dubas wasn't very pleased that he was blocked from going there at first but was still completely professional about it.

 

[herman]

This interview was noteworthy to me because in it he talked a little about the Dubas-to-Colorado situation. Shanny, completely unprompted in any way, said Dubas wasn't very pleased that he was blocked from going there at first but was still completely professional about it.

Dubas obliquely mentioned the same in his opening presser (or one of the follow up interviews that first day).

 

[CarltonTheBear]

https://twitter.com/Zeisberger/status/999257558010523648

"Hey Lou, would you re-signed Komarov?"

"Absolutely."

*later*

"Sorry Leo, we're gonna have to let you go."

 

[herman]

I think it was Carlton that noted this earlier, but Middleton, Mattinen, and Piccinich are due for decisions this June. Going by Shanahan's remarks that leaving in the 'not-right' person on the big chair for too long can set a franchise back 5-10 years, well, that's pretty telling what will happen to these three.

https://twitter.com/mirtle/status/999274289932075008

Mirtle talks about how the Leafs scouting department were really high on Ryan McLeod, who is a decent but super safe pick, and now that's very likely to not be Dubas' pick.

 

[Zee]

I honestly think the whole thing with Dubas is either going to go really well or else really badly. It's a real trial by fire for him. He's either going to sink or swim. We'll see. I am cautiously optimistic personally. His stat knowledge is impressive. But there is something to be said for Lou's years of experience running a team. Things like trades and negotiations worry me somewhat with Dubas. We'll see. I was not happy with what Lou did at the end of this season. He should have stocked assets.

It's got to be either one or the other.  Unless the Leafs are just mediocre, which I suppose will be viewed as "really bad".  The problem is, especially with the draft strategy, you need a bit of time and distance to appreciate picks made outside the first round.  You can see that from people tying to evaluate Hunter's draft record.  Outside of the first round picks (and Dermott in round 2), we haven't seen any breakthroughs on the players that Hunter decided on.  Does that mean he did a piss poor job in drafting?  For now it appears that way, but  maybe a few of the players picked later make contributions next season or the year after and we look back and realize Hunter actually did a fairly good job.  The same will apply to Dubas.  People will want to see changes right away, but often times it doesn't work that fast. 

I guess the immediate changes he could make to improve the team for next season is the subtraction of guys like Martin, Komarov, Polak and the Leafs promote from within to give some speedy Marlies a shot.  It'll be interesting to see if he pulls off any signing or trades for players we might not expect who are currently undervalued by the NHL.

The market is going to want to see results fast.  This team had 105 points this season, but lost in round 1.  That's not going to cut it for this upcoming season.  If the team doesn't progress past round 1 again, it'll be viewed as a huge failure and the stories will begin that Dubas didn't do enough to improve the Leafs.  Man he's got a tough job.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

The market is going to want to see results fast.  This team had 105 points this season, but lost in round 1.  That's not going to cut it for this upcoming season.  If the team doesn't progress past round 1 again, it'll be viewed as a huge failure and the stories will begin that Dubas didn't do enough to improve the Leafs.  Man he's got a tough job.

With this media and Dubas' background, there's really no winning for him. If they don't get past the 1st round it'll be entirely on his shoulders. If they do all the credit will go back to Lou for "building" this team before Dubas became GM.

 

[Zee]

The market is going to want to see results fast.  This team had 105 points this season, but lost in round 1.  That's not going to cut it for this upcoming season.  If the team doesn't progress past round 1 again, it'll be viewed as a huge failure and the stories will begin that Dubas didn't do enough to improve the Leafs.  Man he's got a tough job.

With this media and Dubas' background, there's really no winning for him. If they don't get past the 1st round it'll be entirely on his shoulders. If they do all the credit will go back to Lou for "building" this team before Dubas became GM.

Maybe, maybe not.  It all depends on what players contribute to the Leafs success.  The obvious contributors will be the big 3 of course, but what if some players who aren't currently on the Leafs are big factors in seeing them succeed?  If Dubas brings in a few new players, and those guys help propel the team forward, then he'll get a ton of credit for that.  The obvious spot for much needed help is the defense.  If he can fix that somehow, this team could be a lot better.

 

[herman]

This interview was noteworthy to me because in it he talked a little about the Dubas-to-Colorado situation. Shanny, completely unprompted in any way, said Dubas wasn't very pleased that he was blocked from going there at first but was still completely professional about it.

Dubas obliquely mentioned the same in his opening presser (or one of the follow up interviews that first day).

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2018/05/12/kyle-dubas-on-mike-babcock-the-stuff-he-gets-from-our-research-and-development-people-ive-never-seen-a-coach-go-through-it-as-in-depth-and-look-for-the-edges-within-that/

You have to [sic] potential ? if not the opportunity ? to take the job in Colorado, and your President stands in the way of that. Did it piss you off?

Dubas: I think in the short term, you have an opportunity, and you have tried to work towards that, but after the initial discussion with Brendan and kind of getting over that, I just said, ?You can look at it and feel sorry for yourself, or you can get to work on the season ahead with the Maple Leafs.? I think that?s really where my relationship with Lou was a big benefit, in leaning on Lou during that and leaning on Lou during the year to help improve myself and thus help improve the hockey club.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

It'll be interesting to see if he pulls off any signing or trades for players we might not expect who are currently undervalued by the NHL.

One guy to keep an eye on would be Boston's Austin Czarnik. Ian Tulloch of the Athletic did a series on cost effective options for this offseason and he was one of the players profiled, but I've seen him get brought up a lot on twitter as well. He's a 25-year old, undersized (5'9", 160 lbs), right-handed centre who's set to become an UFA.

This season he finished 3rd in AHL scoring with 69 points in 64 games. The guys who finished ahead of him were both older. Last season he scored 23 points in 22 AHL games, and in his first AHL season he scored 61 points 68 games. He scored 13 points in 49 NHL games last season and 4 points in 10 NHL games this season. Those numbers certainly aren't impressive but he wasn't playing with the most talented linemates. He also had great possession numbers in both NHL stints and a crappy PDO.

Certainly seems like a guy Dubas would like to take a chance on if he becomes available.

 

[Zee]

This interview was noteworthy to me because in it he talked a little about the Dubas-to-Colorado situation. Shanny, completely unprompted in any way, said Dubas wasn't very pleased that he was blocked from going there at first but was still completely professional about it.

Dubas obliquely mentioned the same in his opening presser (or one of the follow up interviews that first day).

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2018/05/12/kyle-dubas-on-mike-babcock-the-stuff-he-gets-from-our-research-and-development-people-ive-never-seen-a-coach-go-through-it-as-in-depth-and-look-for-the-edges-within-that/

You have to [sic] potential ? if not the opportunity ? to take the job in Colorado, and your President stands in the way of that. Did it piss you off?

Dubas: I think in the short term, you have an opportunity, and you have tried to work towards that, but after the initial discussion with Brendan and kind of getting over that, I just said, ?You can look at it and feel sorry for yourself, or you can get to work on the season ahead with the Maple Leafs.? I think that?s really where my relationship with Lou was a big benefit, in leaning on Lou during that and leaning on Lou during the year to help improve myself and thus help improve the hockey club.

After reading a bunch of stories, seeing the fallout from Shanahan's decision in choosing Dubas, I just have to say that Shanahan has some huge brass balls.  He blocked Colorado from poaching Dubas last year so he could hand over the organization to him this season.  He's put a ton of faith in this kid.  If it works out, I'll be the first guy to go and worship at the statue of Brendan Shanahan.  If the Leafs become a Cup champion, and a perennial contender from all this, he (Shanahan) will be spoken about in Leafs circles the same way as Conn Smythe.

 

[herman]

The market is going to want to see results fast.  This team had 105 points this season, but lost in round 1.  That's not going to cut it for this upcoming season.  If the team doesn't progress past round 1 again, it'll be viewed as a huge failure and the stories will begin that Dubas didn't do enough to improve the Leafs.  Man he's got a tough job.

With this media and Dubas' background, there's really no winning for him. If they don't get past the 1st round it'll be entirely on his shoulders. If they do all the credit will go back to Lou for "building" this team before Dubas became GM.

Maybe, maybe not.  It all depends on what players contribute to the Leafs success.  The obvious contributors will be the big 3 of course, but what if some players who aren't currently on the Leafs are big factors in seeing them succeed?  If Dubas brings in a few new players, and those guys help propel the team forward, then he'll get a ton of credit for that.  The obvious spot for much needed help is the defense.  If he can fix that somehow, this team could be a lot better.

I think the media should also look at a lot of the infrastructural changes Dubas instituted here on top of building and running a successful team and scouting regularly: the research & development group, the sports science division, the skills development group, the prospect development program... these are all long term moves that leveraged the resources at MLSE's disposal to create an environment and foundation that pretty much was in shambles before.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2018/05/12/kyle-dubas-on-mike-babcock-the-stuff-he-gets-from-our-research-and-development-people-ive-never-seen-a-coach-go-through-it-as-in-depth-and-look-for-the-edges-within-that/

You have to [sic] potential ? if not the opportunity ? to take the job in Colorado, and your President stands in the way of that. Did it piss you off?

Dubas: I think in the short term, you have an opportunity, and you have tried to work towards that, but after the initial discussion with Brendan and kind of getting over that, I just said, ?You can look at it and feel sorry for yourself, or you can get to work on the season ahead with the Maple Leafs.? I think that?s really where my relationship with Lou was a big benefit, in leaning on Lou during that and leaning on Lou during the year to help improve myself and thus help improve the hockey club.

Thanks, I missed that interview. Interesting that he also admits that during Lou's first season the two didn't work very closely, but things changed after that.

 

[herman]

After reading a bunch of stories, seeing the fallout from Shanahan's decision in choosing Dubas, I just have to say that Shanahan has some huge brass balls.  He blocked Colorado from poaching Dubas last year so he could hand over the organization to him this season.  He's put a ton of faith in this kid.  If it works out, I'll be the first guy to go and worship at the statue of Brendan Shanahan.  If the Leafs become a Cup champion, and a perennial contender from all this, he (Shanahan) will be spoken about in Leafs circles the same way as Conn Smythe.

A lot of what Shanahan said yesterday amounted to: 4 years ago, he listened and hired based on what others told him; this time, he listened and watched for 4 years to see which part of the brain trust had the right ideas and approach.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

A lot of what Shanahan said yesterday amounted to: 4 years ago, he listened and hired based on what others told him; this time, he listened and watched for 4 years to see which part of the brain trust had the right ideas and approach.

Admittedly this is reading between the lines here, but Shanny's talk about making this decision based on watching how the management team worked the past few years and the decisions/debates that were made/had... you gotta wonder if there were things that Dubas either did or wanted to do that others didn't and with the benefit of hindsight Dubas ended up being right in some of those calls more than the others were.