Leafs acquire Eric Fehr

[Frank E]

Thank you gentlemen...so if I understand correctly, even if they're not into LTIR space, they've only got less than $1m ($300K 'ish, according to busta's post), and therefore would still be carrying over $4ish million, assuming the bonuses run around that number of $5m?

 

[rdowdall]

Because a bonus isn't a gaurantee, it isn't calculated in to the current year cap.  Therefore any bonuses achieved come off the cap the following year if you were at the limit.  There is something when you use LTIR, that the bonus automatically come off the next year.  However, if you have enough cap space to pay for the bonus in the current year, then there is no overage.

Basically, LTIR can't pay for bonuses.

That sums it up pretty nicely - and, the reason LTIR can't be used for bonuses is it's only valid for use during the season - so, before bonuses are calculated. And, the reason going into LTIR space pushes every penny of earned bonuses onto the next season's ledger is that, in order to qualify to use LTIR space, you have to have hit the cap ceiling.

To answer the second part of Frank's question, the effect is that the Leafs will be carrying up to ~$5M in dead cap next season due to the all the rookie bonuses Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Brown, and Zaitsev will have earned this season.

Are the bonuses valid for each year of their contracts?  Or is it only the first year?

Also, there is money coming off the books, so it shouldn't be so bad.  It's mainly something to keep in mind when planning out a roster though, as the Leafs may not have as much cap as expected.

 

[herman]

Mirtle: Trying to make sense of the Maple Leafs' odd trade deadline day
https://theathletic.com/41452/2017/03/01/mirtle-trying-to-make-sense-of-the-maple-leafs-odd-trade-deadline-day/

Scott Cullen throws in a nice Easter egg about Corrado
http://www.tsn.ca/statistically-speaking-breaking-down-the-deadline-deals-1.684482

CBA seems to stipulate 'per season' on their bonus descriptions.
http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/platform/amp/2016/7/21/12244284/the-Auston-matthews-contract-and-everything-you-need-to-know-about

 

[herman]

A) oh look, Polak being on the team has forced out a promising young defenseman, but it's okay because Polak will be traded at the deadline for 2nds...
B) we need a right handed penalty killer to take super important defensive zone draws, even though research has shown teams who lose offensive zone power play draws end up with better high danger chances*. So let's get Smith! Oh and let's get Fehr.

Who is the general manager? I guess we will have a good chunk of data to see how effective these decisions were for next year.

* if the power play team is aggressive enough to forecheck the defense off the draw, with the puck already in the Danger Zone

 

[bustaheims]

Are the bonuses valid for each year of their contracts?  Or is it only the first year?

Every year of the ELCs. So, this will be something the team needs to consider for the next 2 seasons.

 

[Kin]

A) oh look, Polak being on the team has forced out a promising young defenseman, but it's okay because Polak will be traded at the deadline for 2nds...
B) we need a right handed penalty killer to take super important defensive zone draws, even though research has shown teams who lose offensive zone power play draws end up with better high danger chances*. So let's get Smith! Oh and let's get Fehr.

Who is the general manager? I guess we will have a good chunk of data to see how effective these decisions were for next year.

It's always easier to say the right things about running this team before the realities of the market intrude.

 

[L K]

A) oh look, Polak being on the team has forced out a promising young defenseman, but it's okay because Polak will be traded at the deadline for 2nds...
B) we need a right handed penalty killer to take super important defensive zone draws, even though research has shown teams who lose offensive zone power play draws end up with better high danger chances*. So let's get Smith! Oh and let's get Fehr.

Who is the general manager? I guess we will have a good chunk of data to see how effective these decisions were for next year.

* if the power play team is aggressive enough to forecheck the defense off the draw, with the puck already in the Danger Zone

I don't know if the team would be run better but it certainly strikes me that the team has moved a step back from the "rah rah advanced statistics" approach prior to Lou coming on board. 

I mean we now have a 4th line with Martin + Boyle + maybe Fehr making 6.5M.  I get that the Leafs aren't in cap hell facing overages but it just strikes me as sloppy financials to be in a situation where you are dealing with overages at all, let alone 4M in cap penalties when we are talking about a team with 7 rookies + Josh Leivo on the roster.

 

[herman]

I guess while I'm on it, why did we toss Panik?
https://twitter.com/PeteBlackburn/status/837129943104557056
www.twitter.com/PeteBlackburn/status/837129943104557056

Does Babcock hate every waiver pick up that is not a RH PK FO guy?

Martin - Boyle - Fehr/Leivo/Soshnikov
or
Holland/Soshnikov - Boyle/Gauthier - Hyman
with Panik/Griffith winging Matthews/Kadri?

 

[herman]

I don't know if the team would be run better but it certainly strikes me that the team has moved a step back from the "rah rah advanced statistics" approach prior to Lou coming on board. 

I mean we now have a 4th line with Martin + Boyle + maybe Fehr making 6.5M.  I get that the Leafs aren't in cap hell facing overages but it just strikes me as sloppy financials to be in a situation where you are dealing with overages at all, let alone 4M in cap penalties when we are talking about a team with 7 rookies + Josh Leivo on the roster.

Upside: we got an asset back for the Free Frankie Corrado that Babcock would never ever play ever again, and an RH FO option with Ben Smith playing even worse now thanks to that broken hand surgery. Big giant slowing dudes who will pay the iron price to try to keep pucks out of the net.

Such a weird team now: top 8 of fast and deadly skill (sorry Leo). Bottom 3/4 of big and not that fast. At least two of them still have decent hands and memories of scoring ability.

 

[rdowdall]

I don't know if the team would be run better but it certainly strikes me that the team has moved a step back from the "rah rah advanced statistics" approach prior to Lou coming on board. 

I mean we now have a 4th line with Martin + Boyle + maybe Fehr making 6.5M.  I get that the Leafs aren't in cap hell facing overages but it just strikes me as sloppy financials to be in a situation where you are dealing with overages at all, let alone 4M in cap penalties when we are talking about a team with 7 rookies + Josh Leivo on the roster.

Upside: we got an asset back for the Free Frankie Corrado that Babcock would never ever play ever again, and an RH FO option with Ben Smith playing even worse now thanks to that broken hand surgery. Big giant slowing dudes who will pay the iron price to try to keep pucks out of the net.

Such a weird team now: top 8 of fast and deadly skill (sorry Leo). Bottom 3/4 of big and not that fast. At least two of them still have decent hands and memories of scoring ability.

Well that rebuild was fun while they tried it.

 

[herman]

http://theleafsnation.com/2017/3/1/let-s-be-honest-toronto-s-trade-deadline-was-underhwelming

Kalinin <--> Loov trade made sense on its own.
Boyle trade made sense on its own.
Corrado trade made sense on its own.

But then bring it all together. Start with the Marlies: If Sislo is in to be a close-enough Froese, why did Froese leave? If Olesky is a close-enough Corrado, why not hold onto Corrado for a year? If the Leafs weren't going to get much back for taking on $2 million in cap space this year, why bother?

Oh, and if there wasn't going to be an upgrade in another position to go with it, why give up an asset for Boyle? Maybe the Leafs though they had more coming, but the end result was they didn't.

The only thing really gained with these moves is playoff experience.
Per Lou, the only space they were willing to make changes in were the fringes of the lineup, to convey trust in the current group and to see how far they can take this with some additional support.

The Leafs lineup is a bit like TheLeafsNation blog right now. The disconnect between the content and the comments is quite something to behold.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

For ten years we lamented having nothing in the cupboard, now we have a lineup that is more good than bad and people are reacting like the sky is still falling.

They still have plenty of picks, at worst a good prospect group, a great young core, good goaltending and still people are freaking out because things aren't going 100% the way they want.

Nothing that's been done recently that meaningfully ties their hands in any way.

It seems like a byproduct of the political climate we live in now too where if someone doesn't agree with whatever political position is deemed to be the "correct" one they are immediately called a nazi or a snowflake.

It seems everything is now either black or white and there is no grey.

 

[herman]

I see it more like,

We have these great snowmobiles that are ready to zoom zoom zoom, but we've got to strap these here wood furnaces to them because it'd be good learning. Make snowmobile strong. I was told we could trade these furnaces in come spring time, but here we are, in March, towing furnaces. Not only that, we picked up bigger furnaces by trading in some backup snowmobiles.

;D

 

[Kin]

For ten years we lamented having nothing in the cupboard, now we have a lineup that is more good than bad and people are reacting like the sky is still falling.

They still have plenty of picks, at worst a good prospect group, a great young core, good goaltending and still people are freaking out because things aren't going 100% the way they want.

Nothing that's been done recently that meaningfully ties their hands in any way.

I don't get this line of thinking at all. Aside from the fact that I think the freakout factor is pretty low I think it's a pretty fair criticism to look at what they did and try to figure out what it means in terms of what they see as priorities and what they're trying to accomplish in both the long and short terms.

There's not really a ton of virtue in being 90% smart if being 100% smart is a choice.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

For ten years we lamented having nothing in the cupboard, now we have a lineup that is more good than bad and people are reacting like the sky is still falling.

They still have plenty of picks, at worst a good prospect group, a great young core, good goaltending and still people are freaking out because things aren't going 100% the way they want.

Nothing that's been done recently that meaningfully ties their hands in any way.

I don't get this line of thinking at all. Aside from the fact that I think the freakout factor is pretty low I think it's a pretty fair criticism to look at what they did and try to figure out what it means in terms of what they see as priorities and what they're trying to accomplish in both the long and short terms.

There's not really a ton of virtue in being 90% smart if being 100% smart is a choice.

At the same time there isn't a ton of sense in looking at 10% of moves you take issue with and deciding things are 100% off the rails.

 

[Kin]

At the same time there isn't a ton of sense in looking at 10% of moves you take issue with and deciding things are 100% off the rails.

I don't really know what that means. I mean, with all due respect, a train being on or off the rails is sort of a black or white issue.

 

[hockeyfan1]

According to Bob McKenzie as per TSN's SC, he believed the Leafs acquired Fehr for depth, experience, and lastly, he could be made available for the Vegas draft.  Trying to make some sense out of this deal.

 

[Bullfrog]

According to Bob McKenzie as per TSN's SC, he believed the Leafs acquired Fehr for depth, experience, and lastly, he could be made available for the Vegas draft.  Trying to make some sense out of this deal.

Lamoriello admitted that was part of the consideration as well.

 

[rdowdall]

For ten years we lamented having nothing in the cupboard, now we have a lineup that is more good than bad and people are reacting like the sky is still falling.

They still have plenty of picks, at worst a good prospect group, a great young core, good goaltending and still people are freaking out because things aren't going 100% the way they want.

Nothing that's been done recently that meaningfully ties their hands in any way.

I don't get this line of thinking at all. Aside from the fact that I think the freakout factor is pretty low I think it's a pretty fair criticism to look at what they did and try to figure out what it means in terms of what they see as priorities and what they're trying to accomplish in both the long and short terms.

There's not really a ton of virtue in being 90% smart if being 100% smart is a choice.

At the same time there isn't a ton of sense in looking at 10% of moves you take issue with and deciding things are 100% off the rails.

It's because the 10% signifies a shift in thought.  Missteps happen.  Bad deals get made.  That's not what this is.  This is a shift in how the organization is thinking.  This shift, in my opinion, is coming at the wrong time.

 

[ZBBM]

I see it more like,

We have these great snowmobiles that are ready to zoom zoom zoom, but we've got to strap these here wood furnaces to them because it'd be good learning. Make snowmobile strong. I was told we could trade these furnaces in come spring time, but here we are, in March, towing furnaces. Not only that, we picked up bigger furnaces by trading in some backup snowmobiles.

;D

That's about the dumbest analogy I ever heard. Where in hell did you come up with that? /rolly rolly rolleyes/