Leafs acquire Steckel from NJ

[Kin]

Well jeebus, we can't express an opinion without having Scotty's book under our belt? C'mon he's not asking for anyone to take a stand just offer opinion on how they stack up in our minds and from our experience, it happens all the time around here.

For Xenu's sake, calm the eff down you nutbag. I'm giving my opinion of "I don't know and I don't think there's a ton of evidence to suggest one way or the other". I didn't say people can't say or offer whatever crazy opinion they want.

 

[Corn Flake]

We disagree that Bozak would be in the pressbox, if both Connolly and Lombardi are healthy and in the line-up. I don't think he would, I even believe he's ahead of Lombardi on the depth chart right now, it's Lombardi that has to prove himself, not Bozak.

Lombardi needs to show if he can return to form after the injury, but he has proven far more on the ice that Bozak has over his carreer. Prior to the injury, he had years of 53, 46, 36 and 46 points. Lombardi is an NHL player, Bozak hasn't shown me that he isn't one of those guys that aren't good enough for a spot in the top 6 and doesn't play the style of game suited for a bottom 6 role. I'm not even sure Bozak is going to stick in the NHL for an extended period of time.

That is a very glass 95% empty view of him, I would say.  Probably worst case, in fact?

While its early, Bozak has done a good job establishing himself as a capable faceoff guy and was looking very good on the PK as well when last season ended. 

While I do agree Lombardi is more established and once he has his conditioning up will probably take the 3rd line job, Bozak can't be written off yet by any stretch and has shown many signs he can be a capable NHL forward in a variety of roles.

 

[Kin]

That is a very glass 95% empty view of him, I would say.  Probably worst case, in fact?

I think that it's probably true that a guy not being a good fit for the NHL is the worst case scenario for just about any player I'd probably say that the real issue for Bozak isn't necessarily one of talent but more one of duplication. If he's not a great third liner and is more of a second liner then it becomes an issue of him vs. Grabo for the same spot with the possibility that neither of them can be bumped up to the first line.

 

[Tigger]

Well jeebus, we can't express an opinion without having Scotty's book under our belt? C'mon he's not asking for anyone to take a stand just offer opinion on how they stack up in our minds and from our experience, it happens all the time around here.

For Xenu's sake, calm the eff down you nutbag. I'm giving my opinion of "I don't know and I don't think there's a ton of evidence to suggest one way or the other". I didn't say people can't say or offer whatever crazy opinion they want.

Xenu and nutbag, glad to see some things never change.

 

[Corn Flake]

That is a very glass 95% empty view of him, I would say.  Probably worst case, in fact?

I think that it's probably true that a guy not being a good fit for the NHL is the worst case scenario for just about any player I'd probably say that the real issue for Bozak isn't necessarily one of talent but more one of duplication. If he's not a great third liner and is more of a second liner then it becomes an issue of him vs. Grabo for the same spot with the possibility that neither of them can be bumped up to the first line.

Sure.  That would be kind of the back-pocket reason to keep Bozak - in the event that Grabbo ends up leaving due to contract reasons since he is UFA this summer.

it wouldn't be a horrible thing to have Bozak play 3rd line centre this year and even though we say he isn't prototypical #3, I'm not sure that means he couldn't sit in that role for the short term and move up in a year or two, if needed. 

Who knows.. with Connolly, Bozak might end up playing 50 games as the #1 again if things go the way they typically do for Timmay.

 

[Deebo]

We disagree that Bozak would be in the pressbox, if both Connolly and Lombardi are healthy and in the line-up. I don't think he would, I even believe he's ahead of Lombardi on the depth chart right now, it's Lombardi that has to prove himself, not Bozak.

Lombardi needs to show if he can return to form after the injury, but he has proven far more on the ice that Bozak has over his carreer. Prior to the injury, he had years of 53, 46, 36 and 46 points. Lombardi is an NHL player, Bozak hasn't shown me that he isn't one of those guys that aren't good enough for a spot in the top 6 and doesn't play the style of game suited for a bottom 6 role. I'm not even sure Bozak is going to stick in the NHL for an extended period of time.

That is a very glass 95% empty view of him, I would say.  Probably worst case, in fact?

While its early, Bozak has done a good job establishing himself as a capable faceoff guy and was looking very good on the PK as well when last season ended. 

While I do agree Lombardi is more established and once he has his conditioning up will probably take the 3rd line job, Bozak can't be written off yet by any stretch and has shown many signs he can be a capable NHL forward in a variety of roles.

Who's writing him off? I just think he has more to prove than Lombardi.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

I think that it's probably true that a guy not being a good fit for the NHL is the worst case scenario for just about any player I'd probably say that the real issue for Bozak isn't necessarily one of talent but more one of duplication. If he's not a great third liner and is more of a second liner then it becomes an issue of him vs. Grabo for the same spot with the possibility that neither of them can be bumped up to the first line.

Maybe we look at this a different way, like maybe Grabbo isn't the 2nd line center, until we actually land a top line center. I also think his game is still on the rise and media/ pundits are talking about him in that light this year it seems.

At any rate, I think Bozak, Lombardi, Grabbo and certainly Connolly have to be given time to prove themselves anyway. It may all be a bit premature to start talking about this stuff, based on some speculation from Dreger or otherwise. I'm at fault for that as well.

 

[bustaheims]

Who's writing him off? I just think he has more to prove than Lombardi.

He does, but, at the same time, he's better suited to the role of 3rd line centre than Lombardi is. On top of that, Bozak has been better on the draw than Lombardi ever has been in a full NHL season. If everyone's healthy, I think Lombardi moves to the wing on the 3rd line - something Wilson alluded to early in training camp.

 

[Kin]

it wouldn't be a horrible thing to have Bozak play 3rd line centre this year and even though we say he isn't prototypical #3, I'm not sure that means he couldn't sit in that role for the short term and move up in a year or two, if needed. 

True. The real issue with Bozak would be in the event of Lombardi supplanting him as the #3 as well. With the Leafs probably under the gun to make the playoffs there's a real chance that Ron Wilson goes with the veteran in that role if the two are roughly comparable.

I don't advocate dealing Bozak heck or high water, I'm just acknowledging that he may get squeezed out of a line-up spot this year. If that's the case then stashing him in the back-pocket may not be a great option.

 

[Corn Flake]

We disagree that Bozak would be in the pressbox, if both Connolly and Lombardi are healthy and in the line-up. I don't think he would, I even believe he's ahead of Lombardi on the depth chart right now, it's Lombardi that has to prove himself, not Bozak.

Lombardi needs to show if he can return to form after the injury, but he has proven far more on the ice that Bozak has over his carreer. Prior to the injury, he had years of 53, 46, 36 and 46 points. Lombardi is an NHL player, Bozak hasn't shown me that he isn't one of those guys that aren't good enough for a spot in the top 6 and doesn't play the style of game suited for a bottom 6 role. I'm not even sure Bozak is going to stick in the NHL for an extended period of time.

That is a very glass 95% empty view of him, I would say.  Probably worst case, in fact?

While its early, Bozak has done a good job establishing himself as a capable faceoff guy and was looking very good on the PK as well when last season ended. 

While I do agree Lombardi is more established and once he has his conditioning up will probably take the 3rd line job, Bozak can't be written off yet by any stretch and has shown many signs he can be a capable NHL forward in a variety of roles.

Who's writing him off? I just think he has more to prove than Lombardi.

We agree on more to prove.

on writing him off... Sorry just when you say you don't think he might even stick in the NHL for a long period of time is kind of a writey-offey'ish sort of statement.

 

[Corn Flake]

it wouldn't be a horrible thing to have Bozak play 3rd line centre this year and even though we say he isn't prototypical #3, I'm not sure that means he couldn't sit in that role for the short term and move up in a year or two, if needed. 

True. The real issue with Bozak would be in the event of Lombardi supplanting him as the #3 as well. With the Leafs probably under the gun to make the playoffs there's a real chance that Ron Wilson goes with the veteran in that role if the two are roughly comparable.

I don't advocate dealing Bozak heck or high water, I'm just acknowledging that he may get squeezed out of a line-up spot this year. If that's the case then stashing him in the back-pocket may not be a great option.

I've suggested trading him makes some sense, part because of what we are saying about Lombardi, part because I think the kids coming up will be ready to step in and there are guys like Boyce/Dupuis/etc who could if the kids aren't ready and part because if Connolly is out for a bit to start the season, Bozak will get a good showcase on the top line and his value will jump a bit.

I think teams who want a cheap top six with upside will pay a good price for him.. Leafs can move on with more defined roles too.

 

[Kin]

Maybe we look at this a different way, like maybe Grabbo isn't the 2nd line center, until we actually land a top line center. I also think his game is still on the rise and media/ pundits are talking about him in that light this year it seems.

I think there's a wide enough gulf between saying that Grabo has room to improve and him establishing himself as a legit #1 that we can still realistically look at him as a guy whose ceiling is that of a very good #2. If Bozak's ceiling is a slightly less good #2 then that duplication still exists.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

I think there's a wide enough gulf between saying that Grabo has room to improve and him establishing himself as a legit #1 that we can still realistically look at him as a guy whose ceiling is that of a very good #2. If Bozak's ceiling is a slightly less good #2 then that duplication still exists.

I feel confident in saying that Grabbo will be the #1 on the Leafs and I don't think Connolly will change that. If we're talking league wide? I don't care about that really. Maybe the real competition here will be between Connolly, Lombardi and Bozak for that #2 slot in the end.

 

[Kin]

I feel confident in saying that Grabbo will be the #1 on the Leafs and I don't think Connolly will change that. If we're talking league wide? I don't care about that really. Maybe the real competition here will be between Connolly, Lombardi and Bozak for that #2 slot in the end.

I don't think it matters much what you call them in terms of numbers so much as it is an issue of where the Leafs need to improve. Grabo makes a very good #2 centreman and leaves the position settled as the Leafs look for that real top of league #1 who can be the driving force behind a deep playoff run. Having him on the top line doesn't mean the Leafs can ignore that search so the Leafs are better off thinking of Grabo as the #2 in the long term.

Connolly, obviously, isn't anyone's idea of a perfect #1 and that's why he's largely seen as a temporary measure. So if Grabo can fill that #2 spot well and Connolly is a good stop gap until a top flight #1 arrives the Leafs are out of top 6 centre spots for the immediate future and are still on the hunt for the guy that fills them up there for the long-term. That's why there's the duplication.

 

[slapshot]

Like stated earlier I assume this means another deal is in the works. Given the overload of 3rd/4th line centres.

I think it spells the end for Bozak, but not directly because of the deal. I think the key tie to future moves is this brings in a role the Leafs didn't really have filled well - a big defensive centre who is great on the PK and has size. 

The #2 and #4 centre jobs are solidified now. IMO, Lombardi is going to pretty much run Bozak out of town as soon as he is up to NHL conditioning standards.  Bozak is out of a job if Connolly can fluke out 10 healthy games in a row. 

Its not a knock on Bozak so to speak... its just numbers. He has value I think and will be moved for something decent I'm sure.

I think it's too early to predict anything. Bozak was the best player in pre-season  until he got hurt. Leafs are looking for balanced scoring and chemistry. I could see Lombardi playing left wing with Bozak and Army and Kadri going down as another scenario.

The best players will play, Komi aside.

 

[Propellertop]

Ah...why did we trade for a larger version of Zigomanis?

 

[Propellertop]

I think there's a wide enough gulf between saying that Grabo has room to improve and him establishing himself as a legit #1 that we can still realistically look at him as a guy whose ceiling is that of a very good #2. If Bozak's ceiling is a slightly less good #2 then that duplication still exists.

I feel confident in saying that Grabbo will be the #1 on the Leafs and I don't think Connolly will change that. If we're talking league wide? I don't care about that really. Maybe the real competition here will be between Connolly, Lombardi and Bozak for that #2 slot in the end.

Ultimately, 2 lines that are both dangerous and with 1a/1b Centres makes it harder for the opposition to shut down night in and night out. Bozak wasn't the tonic for Kessel so somebody is going to have to fill that spot. If Connolly isn't made of glass, it'll need to be him or it's the same old same old for that line.

 

[moon111]

Ah...why did we trade for a larger version of Zigomanis?

Because Phaneuf and Schenn were tired of Ziggy protesting their steak dinners?

 

[cw]

Who's writing him off? I just think he has more to prove than Lombardi.

He does, but, at the same time, he's better suited to the role of 3rd line centre than Lombardi is. On top of that, Bozak has been better on the draw than Lombardi ever has been in a full NHL season. If everyone's healthy, I think Lombardi moves to the wing on the 3rd line - something Wilson alluded to early in training camp.

I'm not sure Bozak is better suited to the third line or that he's proven that yet. He seems better at faceoffs but is he a better checker/two way player than Lombardi? Lombardi has established himself as a PKer while we don't have a great body of evidence for Bozak's ability there yet - though he's looked decent with Armstrong. In the best case based upon the evidence to date, my guess is that remains to be seen and while probably not is likely.

The other interesting aspect is Frattin who seems to be getting overlooked a little in the discussion. If Lombardi plays the wing with Armstrong & Bozak, with other bodies healthy or not suspended, Frattin goes to the AHL because they won't short change his development ice time with 4th line duty.

Right now, Frattin looks better to me than Kadri - almost handily. He's better sized and better two ways and seems to be just as capable of scoring though more as a finisher - albeit that we've only seen him in a few NHL games and most of those preseason games. Neither Bozak or Lombardi are great finishers so the potential of chemistry is there with Frattin on that level. A question that remains to be answered in my mind is which line is better:
Lombardi-Bozak-Armstrong
or
Frattin-Lombardi-Armstrong

Frattin definitely brings more beef to that dance than Bozak - which isn't a bad thing on any line but a good one for the third line when it's in a checking role because Frattin is not nearly as much of a perimeter player like Bozak is and he seems better at winning puck battles.

I'm not saying I'm sold on that but the potential theory bears checking out. As would the question of who is the better 3rd line center: recovering-from-concussion Lombardi or unproven Bozak? Prior-to-concussion Lombardi is close to no contest with unproven Bozak in my opinion because prior-to-concussion Lombardi was very unlikely to have gone -29 and scoring only 32pts playing with Phil Kessel last year.

 

[Brian Glennie]

Burke the bottom-feeder. Why do all his deals hinge on him somehow outsmarting a rival GM?

I prefer the GM whose deals hinge on being outsmarted by the rival GM.

I'm still waiting for the deal Burke wins, thats all.