Leafs @ Blues - Feb. 19th, 8:00pm - SNO, TSN 1050

[BrownRolo]

I'm sorry, but how the hell do the Leafs get no PPs that whole game?  It's just garbage.  They should have started out OT on the PP on the noncall on Zaitsev.

I don't recall another season with so many Leafs games and 0 PPs. I can remember a few already this season. It's ridiculous

It's sad really. That's why the PP struggled.. They don't get to do it very often!

It's not like the Leafs don't possess the puck alot and generate chances either, this is the 4th game this season without a PP.  Fourth. The record is 5. You would think Shanahan or someone high up would call up Bettman off the record and ask what the Frig is going on with the refs while calling Leafs games

The record is 5 out of the entire history of the NHL?

 

[hockeyfan1]

I'm sorry but Marner needs to be smarter than that. He just blindly throws it into the middle while Tavares is clearly covered. You can't gift the opposition 3 on 3s like that.

Who is to be blaming Marner for everything that happened on on this play?

Tavares would have received the pass if O'Reilly hadn't been positioning himself to take quick advantage of the situation.  Marner perhaps should have been more attentive, but he took a gamble in which the results were less than favourable.

Truth be told, Andersen should have got a piece of O'Reilly's shot.

The Blues seemed to have been quite strategic in that OT, what with the O'Reilly line in-step with the Marner-Tavares unit.  Everything (the transition) happened so fast on that OT St.Louis goal that no one even had time to react accordingly.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

I didn't catch a second of the game. Damn you Black Outs. How does a guy, living in Northern Ontario, with the Rogers NHL package have games in St. Louis blacked out? It is actually turning me off to the NHL completely.

I'm glad to hear they battled back and got a point. The last I had checked the score, it was 2-0 for the Blues.

 

[Zee]

I'm sorry, but how the hell do the Leafs get no PPs that whole game?  It's just garbage.  They should have started out OT on the PP on the noncall on Zaitsev.

I don't recall another season with so many Leafs games and 0 PPs. I can remember a few already this season. It's ridiculous

It's sad really. That's why the PP struggled.. They don't get to do it very often!

It's not like the Leafs don't possess the puck alot and generate chances either, this is the 4th game this season without a PP.  Fourth. The record is 5. You would think Shanahan or someone high up would call up Bettman off the record and ask what the Frig is going on with the refs while calling Leafs games

The record is 5 out of the entire history of the NHL?

Evidently, I mean it's unusual for a team to go an entire game without a PP, usually a ref will look for the "even up" call after one team has had 2-3 PPs in a row. If you're really calling the game strictly it's not too difficult to find a slash or hold during the game.  To have 5 complete games in a season without a PP chance is ridiculous, yet the Leafs are now 1 game away from tying the record

 

[cabber24]

Nylander played 15 minutes again tonight despite being arguably our best forward.  Matthews played 16:30

This in a game where Kadri missed 2/3 of the game.  Babcock really needs to fix his bad lineups

It's pretty damn simple... like every other team in the league play your best players the most. How does he even manage to consistently do this? Maybe he should go coach a budget team somewhere since he is so damn determined to draw blood from a stone. I am just going to save these shiny awesome things for a rainy day?

Guess what Babs there's a new sheriff in town with more salary and term than you. It's time to play nice.

 

[cabber24]

Should Hyman be taking so many shorthanded faceoffs? We have guys with far better FOW%. Looking into it further I am realizing that the Leafs use Lindholm and Hyman to take faceoffs when shorthanded. Winning faceoffs on penalty kill would probably be a good thing. Gauthier, Kadri, Nylander, Matthews, Tavares all have better FOW%.

 

[Kin]

Should Hyman be taking so many shorthanded faceoffs? We have guys with far better FOW%. Looking into it further I am realizing that the Leafs use Lindholm and Hyman to take faceoffs when shorthanded. Winning faceoffs on penalty kill would probably be a good thing. Gauthier, Kadri, Nylander, Matthews, Tavares all have better FOW%.

Hyman being a better penalty killer than those guys probably matters more than the handful of extra wins per 100 draws they'd represent.

 

[herman]

I missed this game; it sounded like a fun roller coaster!

Re: ice time
I see the general fan frustration with our best players generally getting not-much time on ice relative to the league standards. Not saying that this is exactly the case (because I don't know), but if you want to get a gain on a copycat league with a lot of the same restrictions, the way that appears on the leading edge is going to be frustratingly different and feel emotionally wrong.

Take playing 5'9" players and giving them top-6 deployment, for instance: a decade ago, you'd be the laughing stock of the league if you played anyone that small... oh, Martin St. Louis was 5'8"? Haha, what are they think-- oh they won the Cup with him playing an integral role?!

So what it looks the Leafs have been doing (especially with Muzzin and Nylander and Kadri's and Johnsson's TOIs), is they want as much first-line/first-pair talent spread throughout the lineup as they can possibly fit in the cap. In a regular season game under regular circumstances, it'll be pretty even at 5v5: 15 min per D-pair, 15-18 min per F group that's not the 4th line. When you're up a lot, then 4th line gets more time. When you're chasing the game, then you shorten the benches and increase the concentration of scoring talent in each of the lines.

You can say I'm carrying water for the coach if you'd like; I just don't think people do things that look wrong to us without a reason they've convinced themselves is true and effective (otherwise they'd stop). So I'm generally okay with there being muckers on lines, and our top end guys dragging boat anchors around in the regular season. That's just standard strength training: let's see how much you can push or pull or score in a non-ideal situation regularly. Whatever lessons and gains gleaned from that prolonged exercise will make you better later.

The facts are these: the playoffs are a grind. Cup winners need to net 16 wins running through a gauntlet of teams that have dedicated themselves to beating you. So the teams that have the most in the tank, that have the most players who can produce more with less time/opportunity, well they have the best chance of making it through that grind.

 

[cabber24]

Of the top 30 players in points per game (played at least 40 games) Matthews averages the second least ice time per game.

 

[cabber24]

I missed this game; it sounded like a fun roller coaster!

Re: ice time
I see the general fan frustration with our best players generally getting not-much time on ice relative to the league standards. Not saying that this is exactly the case (because I don't know), but if you want to get a gain on a copycat league with a lot of the same restrictions, the way that appears on the leading edge is going to be frustratingly different and feel emotionally wrong.

Take playing 5'9" players and giving them top-6 deployment, for instance: a decade ago, you'd be the laughing stock of the league if you played anyone that small... oh, Martin St. Louis was 5'8"? Haha, what are they think-- oh they won the Cup with him playing an integral role?!

So what it looks the Leafs have been doing (especially with Muzzin and Nylander and Kadri's and Johnsson's TOIs), is they want as much first-line/first-pair talent spread throughout the lineup as they can possibly fit in the cap. In a regular season game under regular circumstances, it'll be pretty even at 5v5: 15 min per D-pair, 15-18 min per F group that's not the 4th line. When you're up a lot, then 4th line gets more time. When you're chasing the game, then you shorten the benches and increase the concentration of scoring talent in each of the lines.

You can say I'm carrying water for the coach if you'd like; I just don't think people do things that look wrong to us without a reason they've convinced themselves is true and effective (otherwise they'd stop). So I'm generally okay with there being muckers on lines, and our top end guys dragging boat anchors around in the regular season. That's just standard strength training: let's see how much you can push or pull or score in a non-ideal situation regularly. Whatever lessons and gains gleaned from that prolonged exercise will make you better later.

The facts are these: the playoffs are a grind. Cup winners need to net 16 wins running through a gauntlet of teams that have dedicated themselves to beating you. So the teams that have the most in the tank, that have the most players who can produce more with less time/opportunity, well they have the best chance of making it through that grind.

Come playoff time I want to see our best play more and they better be DAMN fresh since we deployed our "money ball" strategy of playing our best less.

 

[Zee]

The last few seasons we've seen various teams go on mega long double-digit winning streaks.  I wish the Leafs would do that once, preferably in the playoffs.

 

[cabber24]

Nylander played 15 minutes again tonight despite being arguably our best forward.  Matthews played 16:30

This in a game where Kadri missed 2/3 of the game.  Babcock really needs to fix his bad lineups

Marleau and Nylander should have been swapped in the third. Nylander looked great and Marleau terrible.

 

[herman]

If the coaching decisions have to be the reason you win games regularly (i.e. McDavid 25+ min playing with Draisaitl, Barkov 24+ min per game), then your team is stuck. There's no ramp up when you really need it, only diminishing returns when your workhorse is out of gas.

Tavares is having one of his most productive seasons so far, playing the fewest minutes on average in his career (probably, I'm not looking this up), and lugging Zach Hyman up the ice (with Marner).

Matthews is on a goal scoring pace that rivals Ovechkin with significantly fewer minutes on 5v5 AND on PP.

They both have (way) more in the tank.

 

[cabber24]

If the coaching decisions have to be the reason you win games regularly (i.e. McDavid 25+ min playing with Draisaitl, Barkov 24+ min per game), then your team is stuck. There's no ramp up when you really need it, only diminishing returns when your workhorse is out of gas.

Tavares is having one of his most productive seasons so far, playing the fewest minutes on average in his career (probably, I'm not looking this up), and lugging Zach Hyman up the ice (with Marner).

Matthews is on a goal scoring pace that rivals Ovechkin with significantly fewer minutes on 5v5 AND on PP.

They both have (way) more in the tank.

Let's hope this crazy "strategery" works out. FYI, Stamkos is the only guy with less ice time per game than Matthews in the top 30 for points per game (at least 40 GP).

 

[dappleganger]

If the coaching decisions have to be the reason you win games regularly (i.e. McDavid 25+ min playing with Draisaitl, Barkov 24+ min per game), then your team is stuck. There's no ramp up when you really need it, only diminishing returns when your workhorse is out of gas.

Tavares is having one of his most productive seasons so far, playing the fewest minutes on average in his career (probably, I'm not looking this up), and lugging Zach Hyman up the ice (with Marner).

Matthews is on a goal scoring pace that rivals Ovechkin with significantly fewer minutes on 5v5 AND on PP.

They both have (way) more in the tank.

I think you hit the nail on the head here. Save 'em for the playoffs.

I also like the idea of switching strategies in the playoffs making the Leafs harder to prepare for.

 

[Strangelove]

Nylander played 15 minutes again tonight despite being arguably our best forward.  Matthews played 16:30

This in a game where Kadri missed 2/3 of the game.  Babcock really needs to fix his bad lineups

Marleau and Nylander should have been swapped in the third 15 game ago. Nylander looked great and Marleau terrible.

Fixed.

It?s not the most popular take, but I think there is a significant amount of evidence (possession stats, etc) that Babcock has systemically failed to optimize the lineup over the past few years.

Old school veteran favouritism has been a persistent thorn in the team?s side.

 

[cabber24]

Nylander played 15 minutes again tonight despite being arguably our best forward.  Matthews played 16:30

This in a game where Kadri missed 2/3 of the game.  Babcock really needs to fix his bad lineups

Marleau and Nylander should have been swapped in the third 15 game ago. Nylander looked great and Marleau terrible.

Fixed.

It?s not the most popular take, but I think there is a significant amount of evidence (possession stats, etc) that Babcock has systemically failed to optimize the lineup over the past few years.

Old school veteran favouritism has been a persistent thorn in the team?s side.

Yes, but Marleau's GUD PRO rating of 6,783.25478 is substantially better than Nylander's 4,5C4.78632!

 

[Deebo]

I didn't catch a second of the game. Damn you Black Outs. How does a guy, living in Northern Ontario, with the Rogers NHL package have games in St. Louis blacked out? It is actually turning me off to the NHL completely.

Was it blacked out on Sportsnet Ontario when you tried to tune in on your cable/satellite provider or was it blacked out in NHL GameCenter (or whatever they are calling that package these days)?

 

[Strangelove]

If the coaching decisions have to be the reason you win games regularly (i.e. McDavid 25+ min playing with Draisaitl, Barkov 24+ min per game), then your team is stuck. There's no ramp up when you really need it, only diminishing returns when your workhorse is out of gas.

Tavares is having one of his most productive seasons so far, playing the fewest minutes on average in his career (probably, I'm not looking this up), and lugging Zach Hyman up the ice (with Marner).

Matthews is on a goal scoring pace that rivals Ovechkin with significantly fewer minutes on 5v5 AND on PP.

They both have (way) more in the tank.

I think you hit the nail on the head here. Save 'em for the playoffs.

I also like the idea of switching strategies in the playoffs making the Leafs harder to prepare for.

Are you sure you aren't rationalizing Babcock's bad decisions?

is there any actual evidence that playing your 20 year old stars 15 minutes per game, rather than at a pace similar to that of other young stars, will make a material difference come playoff time?

Wouldn't it make more sense to play your washed up vets (Marleau, Hainsey) less than your young stars during the season to save them for the playoffs?

 

[ZBBM]

If the coaching decisions have to be the reason you win games regularly (i.e. McDavid 25+ min playing with Draisaitl, Barkov 24+ min per game), then your team is stuck. There's no ramp up when you really need it, only diminishing returns when your workhorse is out of gas.

Tavares is having one of his most productive seasons so far, playing the fewest minutes on average in his career (probably, I'm not looking this up), and lugging Zach Hyman up the ice (with Marner).

Matthews is on a goal scoring pace that rivals Ovechkin with significantly fewer minutes on 5v5 AND on PP.

They both have (way) more in the tank.

I think you hit the nail on the head here. Save 'em for the playoffs.

I also like the idea of switching strategies in the playoffs making the Leafs harder to prepare for.

That's fine, but the corollary is that the coach has to be willing to situationally juice the lines in the playoffs so that the boat anchors/muckers get pushed down to the 3rd and 4th lines when it become necessary to win a game.*  Sometimes you need to load up a line to get back into a game.  Babcock (very) occasionally has done this, but I wish he would do it more down the stretch,  just to give the top guys the experience of playing on gung-ho lines.  You can't just throw them together for the first time when a playoff game is on the line.

* Meaning, for example, no hesitation about parking Marleau if need be.