Leafs @ Islanders - Feb. 28th, 7:00pm - TSN4, TSN 1050

[Guilt Trip]

Driving into to work today and listening to TSN1050 a lot of lc9 type doom and gloom about the Leafs.  I mean c'mon it's ONE game with a highly motivated Islanders team pumped up by their crowd and a tired, shorthanded Leafs team.  Could the outcome have been better, sure, but it's not any indication that the Leafs aren't "tough enough", "not built for the playoffs" or "lacking character".  Sheesh

Agreed. The only head scratcher for me was the decision to start Anderson against the Oilers and Sparks against the Islanders. We likely may have seen a better outcome and 2 possible wins had Babs flipped the 2 around.

Hard to say, it was always going to be a tough game last night.  You grab the sure 2 points anytime you can against a crappy Oilers team and the Leafs did just that.  Could they have spanked the Oilers the same way with Sparks in net?  Probably, but hindsight is 20/20

There is no hindsight when it comes to predicting wins/losses. Bottom line, Sparks isn't close to Freddie so that Oiler win may have had a different result, we just don't know. As for starting Sparks last night, Babs just followed the script. Freddie plays all except back to backs.The only way I see Babs changing that is if it was Boston, Tampa kind of team. My biggest beef with Babs was his lack of playing time for Holl. His love for Hainsey and even Oz before Muzz got here is now hurting and will probably hurt going forward. We better hope Rosen is ready soon. For what it's worth, I actually thought Marincin was worse then Holl.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I think Gord Miller just said the Leafs are 3 and 8 vs top 10 defensive teams this season. That's a little concerning.

How do you define a top-10 defensive team?

 

[Peter D.]

How was Holl last night?

He was a Black Holl back there. 

I thought he had a poor game, and I honestly kept thinking he was a right-handed Phaneuf whenever I saw his #3.

 

[princedpw]

I think Gord Miller just said the Leafs are 3 and 8 vs top 10 defensive teams this season. That's a little concerning.

If you have a lot of data, one can always *search* for a statistic that misrepresents the data.  This is why one hears the phrase "lies, damn lies and statistics". 

I'll be you can find a similar statistic about any team other than maybe the lightening but probably them too.

 

[Guilt Trip]

I think Gord Miller just said the Leafs are 3 and 8 vs top 10 defensive teams this season. That's a little concerning.

He said Top 5, but let's put things in perspective..Top 5 teams for D are Tampa, Boston, Isles, Nashville, Dallas.

They're 1-3 vs Boston. 2 of those losses, Sparks and Hutchinson.
1-1 vs Tampa. Won 4-2, lost 4-1 but dominated that game. Freddie for both
0-2 vs Isles. Sparks in net for both. Outscored 10-1
1-1 vs Dallas.. Won 7-4 and lost 2-1.
0-1 vs Nashville...Lost 4-0, Hutch was in net.
So 5 of those 8 losses were with our backup in net. Freddie had a stinker in 1 of the Bruin games. Not concerning for me.

 

[Guilt Trip]

How was Holl last night?

He was a Black Holl back there. 

I thought he had a poor game, and I honestly kept thinking he was a right-handed Phaneuf whenever I saw his #3.

Good one. Marincin was worse. At least Holl has an excuse of not playing. Marincin has been for the Marlies.

 

[azzurri63]

Only watched bits and pieces of the game last night so can't really comment too much on the performance.
Don't have much faith when Sparks is starting and with the injuries wasn't too hopeful on a victory.
As I have said a million times the team defensively has not gotten better since Babcock has been here.
Numbers may have but think a huge part of that is Andersen.
Can't put all the blame on the D though as a lot of it falls on the forwards.
If you can't or don't want to play both ends of the ice then you shouldn't be playing and that is everyone.
Like someone said Trotz takes a team from 31st to 1st in GAA and that is more to the system than goaltending.
It's a whole team playing a certain style and working.
I haven't seen any improvement in a system or team play in Babcock's tenure.
Only one game in some peoples eyes but I don't see that. It's a bigger problem than some think.

 

[Zee]

Trotz take a team from 31st to 1st in GAA it makes me wonder about a lot of Babcock's ability to get this team to play with structure in our own end.

Rant over. 

I'm not saying that Trotz isn't an upgrade over whoever the heck coached the Islanders last year, but no coach can make his goalies go from terrible to Vezina-quality. Last season the Islanders had the 4th worst team save percentage in the league. Their goalies were Halak (.908 Sv%) and Greiss (.892).

This season they have the best team save percentage in the league. Among goalies with 30 games played this season Lehner has the best save percentage in the league (.931) and Greiss is third (.928). I know that I keep beating this same drum but that's the single biggest reason for the Islanders improvement this season.

I think the question is how much of the goalies save % improvement is a direct result of Trotz implementing a better defensive structure and thus it gives the goalies easier shots to handle? It can't all just be the goalies were horrible and now suddenly they're good can it?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

He said Top 5, but let's put things in perspective..Top 5 teams for D are Tampa, Boston, Isles, Nashville, Dallas.

They're 1-3 vs Boston. 2 of those losses, Sparks and Hutchinson.
1-1 vs Tampa. Won 4-2, lost 4-1 but dominated that game. Freddie for both
0-2 vs Isles. Sparks in net for both. Outscored 10-1
1-1 vs Dallas.. Won 7-4 and lost 2-1.
0-1 vs Nashville...Lost 4-0, Hutch was in net.
So 5 of those 8 losses were with our backup in net. Freddie had a stinker in 1 of the Bruin games. Not concerning for me.

So he defined the top-5 defensive teams as the teams with the lowest GA/GP. By that logic the Leafs are the 11th best defensive team in the league.

 

[Guilt Trip]

He said Top 5, but let's put things in perspective..Top 5 teams for D are Tampa, Boston, Isles, Nashville, Dallas.

They're 1-3 vs Boston. 2 of those losses, Sparks and Hutchinson.
1-1 vs Tampa. Won 4-2, lost 4-1 but dominated that game. Freddie for both
0-2 vs Isles. Sparks in net for both. Outscored 10-1
1-1 vs Dallas.. Won 7-4 and lost 2-1.
0-1 vs Nashville...Lost 4-0, Hutch was in net.
So 5 of those 8 losses were with our backup in net. Freddie had a stinker in 1 of the Bruin games. Not concerning for me.

So he defined the top-5 defensive teams as the teams with the lowest GA/GP. By that logic the Leafs are the 11th best defensive team in the league.

That's what he said so I had to go look up the stats. They are def misleading. Now if Freddie was in for all of these games, we'd have an issue.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I think the question is how much of the goalies save % improvement is a direct result of Trotz implementing a better defensive structure and thus it gives the goalies easier shots to handle? It can't all just be the goalies were horrible and now suddenly they're good can it?

I won't deny for a second that Trotz has improved the Islanders defensively. But I still don't think a coach can create THAT much of a swing in terms of individual goaltending. All I'm saying really is that if Lehner and/or Greiss both return to New York next season I wouldn't bet a penny on them repeating this kind of success.

edit: Although that's not to say that I don't think Lehner is a good goalie and there was certainly a lot of reasons to believe that he'd bounce back considering his off-ice issues that he's been able to work on. But I still think he's playing over his head, and I don't think it's because of Trotz' system. Goalies just have highs and lows throughout their careers, it happens.

 

[Guilt Trip]

I think the question is how much of the goalies save % improvement is a direct result of Trotz implementing a better defensive structure and thus it gives the goalies easier shots to handle? It can't all just be the goalies were horrible and now suddenly they're good can it?

I won't deny for a second that Trotz has improved the Islanders defensively. But I still don't think a coach can create THAT much of a swing in terms of individual goaltending. All I'm saying really is that if Lehner and/or Greiss both return to New York next season I wouldn't bet a penny on them repeating this kind of success.

They are having outstanding seasons and are a huge reason for the turnaround.

 

[Bullfrog]

These have got to stop.  It?s turning the game into a farce and hurts a team?s efforts through loss of confidence and a psychological disadvantage:

[tweet]1101291297338466305[/tweet]

What a strange rule. Why does it matter if his skate is on the ice or not? Shouldn't the blue line be considered a vertical plane?

 

[Peter D.]

What a strange rule. Why does it matter if his skate is on the ice or not? Shouldn't the blue line be considered a vertical plane?

Agreed.  Should be like football.  The fact they spend minutes to determine if a guy's blade is millimetres off the ice is ridiculous.  If the skate is on the plane, it should be onside.  If both skates are on the other side of the plane, offside.

This ridiculous rule reminds me of the skate-in-the-crease rule.  The right premise is there (you don't want that 5-foot offside Duchene goal counting), but to nitpick similar to if the guy's baby toe was touching the furthermost edge of the crease, ruins the spirit of the rule.

 

[Guilt Trip]

I'd like to take it one step further. Add, if the puck is touching the blueline it's considered in.
Gord Miller had a suggestion today. He said why have offsides at all? If you want to play a floater, go ahead. Also added a modded version that you can't pass the puck over 2 bluelines so after exiting your zone, all is onside. I know it isn't basketball or football, but they can pass the whole length of the field. Removing offside would certainly open the game up a lot.

 

[L K]

Yeah the rule and review is flawed, but I think the whole coaches' challenge crap should be changed.

Example:  coaches have no access to tablets/video on the bench.  They want to review, they have to call it right after the play in question without being able to study video beforehand.  Also there should be a time-limit.  Instead of a ref waiting around to see if the coach wants to challenge they have something like 20 seconds after a goal is scored to indicate they're challenging.  That would speed things up and take away alot of these "offside by a millimeter" challenges.

I think it will be impossible to circumvent the ipad thing.  If you ban them on the bench then there will just be a guy in the box whose job it will be to look after every goal and call down what to do.

Offside by a millimeter just needs to not be reviewable.  It's the simplest thing to do.

You fix the rule by changing offside to a vertical line.  If you are over the lie. You are inside.  You fix the silly challenge stuff if you cut down on the time you have to challenge a play.  Doesn?t matter how many iPads you have if you don?t get enough time to scrutinize the play

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Gord Miller had a suggestion today. He said why have offsides at all? If you want to play a floater, go ahead. Also added a modded version that you can't pass the puck over 2 bluelines so after exiting your zone, all is onside. I know it isn't basketball or football, but they can pass the whole length of the field. Removing offside would certainly open the game up a lot.

I'm all for removing offsides entirely. It's a pointless rule. You're not even going to see floaters or cherry pickers even if it wasn't there, does anyone actually think any coach would allow for that?

Anyway, I've always loved this newspaper clipping from 1929 announcing the introduction of the offside rule (thanks to the amazing @mikecommito):

Boy, I sure would hate it if the NHL was characterized by things like "speed".

 

[Coco-puffs]

Gord Miller had a suggestion today. He said why have offsides at all? If you want to play a floater, go ahead. Also added a modded version that you can't pass the puck over 2 bluelines so after exiting your zone, all is onside. I know it isn't basketball or football, but they can pass the whole length of the field. Removing offside would certainly open the game up a lot.

I'm all for removing offsides entirely. It's a pointless rule. You're not even going to see floaters or cherry pickers even if it wasn't there, does anyone actually think any coach would allow for that?

Anyway, I've always loved this newspaper clipping from 1929 announcing the introduction of the offside rule (thanks to the amazing @mikecommito):

Boy, I sure would hate it if the NHL was characterized by things like "speed".

Ummm... I'm pretty sure Babcock is flying the zone because he'd rather not have his wingers have to get the puck out of their own end (he doesn't trust them).  So, if there was anyone I'd bet would say "mitch, go cherry pick" because it would create lots of space for his team to come up the ice, it be Babcock.  (Although I think that is ENTIRELY roster related.  If he had more players he trusted, I bet he'd change his tactic.  If his players weren't so talented, he's also not do it.)

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Ummm... I'm pretty sure Babcock is flying the zone because he'd rather not have his wingers have to get the puck out of their own end (he doesn't trust them).  So, if there was anyone I'd bet would say "mitch, go cherry pick" because it would create lots of space for his team to come up the ice, it be Babcock.  (Although I think that is ENTIRELY roster related.  If he had more players he trusted, I bet he'd change his tactic.  If his players weren't so talented, he's also not do it.)

Flying the zone and cherry picking are two pretty different things. Yeah he sends Marner out but that's only once a Leafs defenceman has possession of the puck. He would never tell Marner to hang around the opposing blue line while the other team has possession of the puck in our end.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Ummm... I'm pretty sure Babcock is flying the zone because he'd rather not have his wingers have to get the puck out of their own end (he doesn't trust them).  So, if there was anyone I'd bet would say "mitch, go cherry pick" because it would create lots of space for his team to come up the ice, it be Babcock.  (Although I think that is ENTIRELY roster related.  If he had more players he trusted, I bet he'd change his tactic.  If his players weren't so talented, he's also not do it.)

Flying the zone and cherry picking are two pretty different things. Yeah he sends Marner out but that's only once a Leafs defenceman has possession of the puck. He would never tell Marner to hang around the opposing blue line while the other team has possession of the puck in our end.

Leafs forwards def fly the zone when our D man get the puck. I'd personally like to see them lose the offside or at the very least, once the puck exits your zone, there are no offsides.