OldTimeHockey
Active member
Guilt Trip said:
Exactly. He's soft on the puck, soft on the man, and just overall a soft player. As he slows, how soft he is becomes more and more evident.
Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
- Thread starter Bonsixx
- Start date
Exactly. He's soft on the puck, soft on the man, and just overall a soft player. As he slows, how soft he is becomes more and more evident.
herman
Well-known member
Bonsixx said:
I'm sorry you feel this way about the site now. I spend a good deal of time here now, without the background of what it was like 'before', and I like it.
I don't find that there is outright hostile shouting down of opinions with analytics; merely a group of people hashing out what might be true from a distance with whatever information they have access to. I have been on the receiving end of data that I had not considered and I appreciate the perspective. I can see why some would chafe at that (it's a natural survival mechanism for humans) and interpret it as hostility. We have a tendency to only take the data that reinforces our already developed opinions (see politics/religion).
If anything, hostility comes up on the defensive side more often than not; for a brief period of time, there was a very vocal pushback calling the 'analytics' crowd bad fans for being pessimists or something like that, and that's unfortunate and also verifiably false. Everyone here is here because they're a fan. We approach the game a bit differently, but at the end of the day we want this team to succeed and that's what we have in common.
So I see your suggestion for icing Matt Martin, and I know you're coming from the perspective of adding that dimension of internally motivated intensity, finishing checks to make the game more of an uphill climb for the Bruins. I agree that dimension is missing from our team. If Komarov was not so slow anymore, we'd have it. I would prefer it come in the form of more minutes for Johnsson, Kapanen. If we can call him up, Carl Grundstrom would also be and interesting add.
Anyway, my main point is, the Marlies in the lineup are the ones that seem to be actually effective, while most of Lou's regular season vets have all seemingly broken down together.
herman said:
One thing I can say after watching the first two games...unless things change dramatically, I won't be particularly upset if JVR, Bozak and Komarov all walk for no return during the summer. It was nice to see JVR throwing his weight around a little in the last game, but he's been pretty invisible for the most part. Would be nice to get some kind of draft pick in exchange for his rights if possible. I'm not sold on Marleau for another 2 years either but that's another discussion.
TheMightyOdin
New member
The only thing I?m going to say about stats is that 60% of the time they?re wrong every time.
Go Leafs Go!
Go Leafs Go!
WhatIfGodWasALeaf
Active member
Leafs Playoff - Ignoramuses who don?t like their misguided opinion challenged edition.
Nice post, thanks.
And between the time I posted this and now, I went back and forth on the Martin thing. I don't think he's going to find his way in, but I also don't think it'll matter much now anyway, if it ever would.
But I think it's clear that the Leafs need a hard-hitting power forward on the top two lines. Hyman works hard, but he's not it. JVR is a big body, but he's not it. Evander Kane maybe? But he's probably signing in San Jose.
I don't know, but the lack of anything resembling pushback is disheartening. And all the skill in the world doesn't seem to combat that. DeBrusk is a bigger factor in this series than Nylander, and that's a shame.
And between the time I posted this and now, I went back and forth on the Martin thing. I don't think he's going to find his way in, but I also don't think it'll matter much now anyway, if it ever would.
But I think it's clear that the Leafs need a hard-hitting power forward on the top two lines. Hyman works hard, but he's not it. JVR is a big body, but he's not it. Evander Kane maybe? But he's probably signing in San Jose.
I don't know, but the lack of anything resembling pushback is disheartening. And all the skill in the world doesn't seem to combat that. DeBrusk is a bigger factor in this series than Nylander, and that's a shame.
herman said:
I have noticed the same thing myself and I commented on it also, albeit not quite as peacefully as you have done. I agree with you and it's a load of BS. There are a handful of pig headed people here that ruin it. One person in particular. However the group of them tends to work together and any type of dissent is met with swift retribution. It really takes a lot of the fun out of posting here. I'm surprised some of these people live in a free country to be honest. They can't deal with any sort of opposing opinion, and they mock those who don't share their own point of view. Anyhow good luck with that. It's not going to change.Bonsixx said:
Kin
New member
I've posted on this site for the better part of two decades now and in general I don't think things have changed much in terms of how the place is. Pre-advanced stats I actually think arguments tended to be longer, more circular and as a result more heated.
Two things though I think I'd say specifically:
1. I think it's always been pretty consistent that the tone of responses an argument gets is in direct proportion to the tone of the argument("Maybe Babcock should consider shuffling Martin in" vs. "WAHT'S WRONG WITH BABCOCK BEING SUCH A WUSS?!?! DOESn't HE HAVE BRAINS?). However there are a lot of people who post the latter and expect to be responded to as if they posted the former.
2. There are always a pretty fair amount of people who take "I think you're wrong" as some sort of terrible personal insult no matter how it's phrased.
Honestly, I think putting any blame on anyone's allegiances to advanced numbers is kind of a canard(and I say that as someone who's neither well versed in them nor has a lot of time for them). If you'd shown up here in 2002 and made an argument that ran afoul of traditional numbers or traditional wisdom people would have probably reacted harsher because of how cut and dried they were. And I say that as someone who made a pretty fair number of "Hey, maybe Tie Domi isn't helping us win much" or "I actually think Kaberle is pretty good defensively" posts.
Two things though I think I'd say specifically:
1. I think it's always been pretty consistent that the tone of responses an argument gets is in direct proportion to the tone of the argument("Maybe Babcock should consider shuffling Martin in" vs. "WAHT'S WRONG WITH BABCOCK BEING SUCH A WUSS?!?! DOESn't HE HAVE BRAINS?). However there are a lot of people who post the latter and expect to be responded to as if they posted the former.
2. There are always a pretty fair amount of people who take "I think you're wrong" as some sort of terrible personal insult no matter how it's phrased.
Honestly, I think putting any blame on anyone's allegiances to advanced numbers is kind of a canard(and I say that as someone who's neither well versed in them nor has a lot of time for them). If you'd shown up here in 2002 and made an argument that ran afoul of traditional numbers or traditional wisdom people would have probably reacted harsher because of how cut and dried they were. And I say that as someone who made a pretty fair number of "Hey, maybe Tie Domi isn't helping us win much" or "I actually think Kaberle is pretty good defensively" posts.
sickbeast said:
Couldn?t agree more, this site used to be an enjoyable way of keeping up with the Leafs, but the past couple of years I found myself getting more and more agitated the way certain posters were be treated. It?s a shame to be honest. It seems if you're not in with the ?in crowd? and agree with their elitist point of view, you are just shouted down.
