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Leafs @ Sabres - Nov. 15th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590

Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
OK.  I appreciate your serious response.  I was wondering whether everyone was just sort of tolerating him.
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I don't love the guy or anything, and if he could be replaced by another player of similar ability, I wouldn't care. I just don't see that happening. You rarely, if ever, get a similar calibre player when you trade a high profile player - and, especially when the perception is that he has a contract the team would be happy to be rid of (which, I don't think is the truth). Moving Phaneuf would really have be part of a large scale rebuild, which isn't happening. I think, like a lot of players, his flaws have been exposed due to factors beyond his control (system, line mates, defensive assignments, defensive partners, etc), and I also think the contract and the C on his chest make him a focal point for criticism that is not really proportionate to his play.
 
Phaneuf is just never ready to play the puck in the offensive zone. PP there and Rielly gets it to him and he's only ready to pass. Why even have him out there?
 
Patrick said:
Phaneuf plays against the best players in the NHL every night.

The best players in the NHL are the best players because they routinely make opposition defenders(note other teams top defenders too) look terrible.

If Dion Phaneuf was as bad as some here think then he'd be torched every single night, truth is he shuts the best players in the league down almost nightly.

Without Phaneuf, someone else has to play against the leagues best and we have nobody capable of doing that the way Dion does.

All of that being said, he has been horrific tonight and deserves every criticism aimed at him.

Those who claim he is 'woeful' I'm sorry, but you show a complete lack of understanding of pro hockey and the responsibilities and results of all top pairing dmen
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I'm with Patrick on this one.
 
Patrick said:
Those who claim he is 'woeful' I'm sorry, but you show a complete lack of understanding of pro hockey and the responsibilities and results of all top pairing dmen
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I just love these kinds of comments.
 
bustaheims said:
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
OK.  I appreciate your serious response.  I was wondering whether everyone was just sort of tolerating him.
Click to expand...

I don't love the guy or anything, and if he could be replaced by another player of similar ability, I wouldn't care. I just don't see that happening. You rarely, if ever, get a similar calibre player when you trade a high profile player - and, especially when the perception is that he has a contract the team would be happy to be rid of (which, I don't think is the truth). Moving Phaneuf would really have be part of a large scale rebuild, which isn't happening. I think, like a lot of players, his flaws have been exposed due to factors beyond his control (system, line mates, defensive assignments, defensive partners, etc), and I also think the contract and the C on his chest make him a focal point for criticism that is not really proportionate to his play.
Click to expand...

This is where I fundamentally disagree.  You could pair him with Nick Lidstrom and he would still display the same flaws.  Flaws that are extra-abundantly on display tonight to be sure, but flaws that crop up regularly.
 
Patrick said:
Phaneuf plays against the best players in the NHL every night.

The best players in the NHL are the best players because they routinely make opposition defenders(note other teams top defenders too) look terrible.

If Dion Phaneuf was as bad as some here think then he'd be torched every single night, truth is he shuts the best players in the league down almost nightly.

Without Phaneuf, someone else has to play against the leagues best and we have nobody capable of doing that the way Dion does.

All of that being said, he has been horrific tonight and deserves every criticism aimed at him.

Those who claim he is 'woeful' I'm sorry, but you show a complete lack of understanding of pro hockey and the responsibilities and results of all top pairing dmen
Click to expand...

I would say he is good not great. Frankly I just don't like him especially as our captain.
 
For the past couple years or so, Phaneuf has skated like an injured player--he'll go entire shifts without really moving his feet. He is also routinely exposed not only by skilled opponents, but by his own lack of effort and hockey sense.  All too often, his game is positionally unsound. And don't get me started on his stone hands and generally neanderthalish physique and personality. He is the antithesis of a good captain.

I'd like to have him as a 3rd/4th defenceman playing limited minutes. But his current price-point is totally insane.
 
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
This is where I fundamentally disagree.  You could pair him with Nick Lidstrom and he would still display the same flaws.  Flaws that are extra-abundantly on display tonight to be sure, but flaws that crop up regularly.
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I'd obviously strongly disagree. I think being paired with Franson has done Phaneuf absolutely no favours on the defensive side of the puck. While Franson has been better this season, he is still not a good defensive player, at all. He's often chasing the puck or out of position, which leaves Phaneuf finding himself out of position trying to cover Franson's and his man. If he was paired with someone with better defensive awareness who wasn't inept with the puck (so that Phaneuf wasn't responsible for all the breakouts when he's on the ice), I think you'd see a significant improvement in the perception of his play. The same would be true if his pairing wasn't always responsible for pretty much every shift by the other team's top line. Good teams share that responsibility between their top 2 pairings. It also doesn't help that he's often on the ice with forwards that don't help out all that much on the defensive side of the puck. On top of that, the fact that the Leafs' defensive system remains pretty porous and poorly organized exposes everyone's defensive issues. It's really a perfect storm of issues that makes Phaneuf's flaws out there to be exposed and taken advantage of.
 
bustaheims said:
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
This is where I fundamentally disagree.  You could pair him with Nick Lidstrom and he would still display the same flaws.  Flaws that are extra-abundantly on display tonight to be sure, but flaws that crop up regularly.
Click to expand...

I'd obviously strongly disagree. I think being paired with Franson has done Phaneuf absolutely no favours on the defensive side of the puck. While Franson has been better this season, he is still not a good defensive player, at all. He's often chasing the puck or out of position, which leaves Phaneuf finding himself out of position trying to cover Franson's and his man. If he was paired with someone with better defensive awareness who wasn't inept with the puck (so that Phaneuf wasn't responsible for all the breakouts when he's on the ice), I think you'd see a significant improvement in the perception of his play. The same would be true if his pairing wasn't always responsible for pretty much every shift by the other team's top line. Good teams share that responsibility between their top 2 pairings. It also doesn't help that he's often on the ice with forwards that don't help out all that much on the defensive side of the puck. On top of that, the fact that the Leafs' defensive system remains pretty porous and poorly organized exposes everyone's defensive issues. It's really a perfect storm of issues that makes Phaneuf's flaws out there to be exposed and taken advantage of.
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I agree that these make a difference, but Phaneuf's been paired with all kinds of guys, not just Franson.  Strangelove's catalogue of his on-ice shortcomings pretty much sums it up for me, plus I don't think much of his skating ability even if he's not playing hurt or whatever.
 
Pairing Franson and Phaneuf on your PP is like trying to win the Kentucky Derby with the Budweiser wagon team
 
Heard this gem on the radio tonight for Osborne when he and Stellick were discussing the worst kind of lead to have. Osborne's answer was the worst kind of lead to have is being behind.
 
B2hmQwXIQAAy7YZ.jpg
 
Jonas Siegel ‏@jonasTSN1050 2m2 minutes ago
Kessel's exact reaction when asked for comment: "Get away from me."
 
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