Leafs @ sens - Mar. 16th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590

[azzurri63]

Have trailed by 3 goals in 4 straight games.  That?s gotta be an NHL first this season.

Still inquiring where the positive is.

A lot of guys have blocked you so you won't get an answer

You took the time to respond. Why not answer the question?  I?m not being disingenuous.  I?m heartbroken.  The team I love doesn?t bother to compete.  It?s hard.

Based on your posting history I suspect you're actually a fan of another team and pretend to be a Leafs fan so you can constantly post negatively in the Leafs game threads. Madferret perhaps?

My history from 2000? I?ve been here nearly 20 years.  Just now being called out.  But go on..

Yea, you've always been a solid poster and, quite frankly, I think people are overreacting a bit to 'spur of the moment' posting. I get the same way when I'm watching, freaking out at all of the team's terrible (and let's face it, this team can be very bad very often) and lazy plays. It's definitely a frustrating team to watch. But I do think maybe the incessant repeating of the same complaints over and over again can get a bit grating, as WIGWAL pointed out. Just my meaningless two cents

I admit I am one of the guilty ones as far as repeated complaints but the thing is nothing has changed as far as the team addressing some of the concerns.
If we saw Babcock fix or alter something in the system etc then I'm sure the complaints would change or maybe disappear but thats not the case.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Literally a week ago we were celebrating wrapping up a 6-1-1 stretch of hockey. One bad week and everyone's on the edge of the cliff again.

 

[bustaheims]

Literally a week ago we were celebrating wrapping up a 6-1-1 stretch of hockey. One bad week and everyone's on the edge of the cliff again.

To be fair, it has been a terrible week, but, the team is also without 2 of their 4 best defencemen - including probably their best puck mover. They should have been better than they have been, but, it's not like they're 100% and falling apart. Also, hopefully this means they actually refocus in time for the first round. The timing of this patch of terribleness could be a blessing in disguise, if they can learn from it.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

If we lose tonight our record in the last 34 games will 17-17, that?s .500 hockey over a decent period of time. We should be better that that. This team is nowhere near playoff ready. Four and out.

Well first of all, no. They are 17-14-3 in their last 34 games. Second, I can clip segments of a schedule too to make my point look good. Like how even including this rough patch the Leafs are 14-7-3 in their last 24 games, which is a 105 point pace or basically what they've been playing at all season long.

 

[ZBBM]

Cherry-picking nonsignificant stretches of the season to hone whatever ax one wants to grind ... it's a hockey tradition.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Cherry-picking nonsignificant stretches of the season to hone whatever ax one wants to grind ... it's a hockey tradition.

The Leafs haven't won a single game since you posted this.

 

[Chris]

Cherry-picking nonsignificant stretches of the season to hone whatever ax one wants to grind ... it's a hockey tradition.

I guess if you consider the whole second half of the season to be a "non-significant stretch", then sure. They've been running barely
above 500 since late December (if they played that way the whole season, good chance they miss the playoffs) and have looked
ugly a lot of the time. Injuries lately have compounded the issue but they've looked pretty mediocre for a long time now. Can they
step it up when the real games count? Maybe. They've played some games along the way where I think "this team could go deep
into the playoffs", so if that team shows up who knows. Problem is, other teams will also be stepping it up.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

They've been running barely above 500 since late December

They've been a top-10 team since late January.

 

[L K]

Literally a week ago we were celebrating wrapping up a 6-1-1 stretch of hockey. One bad week and everyone's on the edge of the cliff again.

To be fair, it has been a terrible week, but, the team is also without 2 of their 4 best defencemen - including probably their best puck mover. They should have been better than they have been, but, it's not like they're 100% and falling apart. Also, hopefully this means they actually refocus in time for the first round. The timing of this patch of terribleness could be a blessing in disguise, if they can learn from it.

The biggest thing this stretch identifies is how much Gardiner doesn't actually suck and that Dermott is a good young player.  The Leafs are in trouble if they don't get one or both of them back for the postseason.

I'm not remotely worried about them otherwise. 

 

[azzurri63]

They've been running barely above 500 since late December

They've been a top-10 team since late January.

Records are fine and dandy and I guess thats what really matters in the end but I base my opinion on how good teams are on how they play and win.
Always said Andersen is our MVP.
This week definitely not but give the guy a break he's been stellar all season.
When you rely on his goaltending to win most games then to me that's not a sign of a good team.
Yes the goaltender is an important piece but he shouldn't be the one carrying you most nights.
Leafs have tons of talent, skilled players that can score goals but defensively as a whole are brutal especially in our own end.
We've been like that before Babcock got here and it's the same today.
Leafs are number 1 in the O zone, bottom 5 in the league in their own end.
Easy to play against, soft as butter and too many not committed to the defensive side of things.
I understand this falls on the players but if they are not committed why are they on the ice.
Matthews is a world of talent with the puck in the offensive zone defensively lazy.
I don't care who you are if you don't want to play hard at both ends of the ice take a seat.
$11.5 million a year is a lot to pay someone who only gives it when he wants.

Don't think the team has been built correctly.
Dubas likes the skilled, smaller guys which is fine and dandy but you still need those tough, hard to play against players that we so desperately lack.
Until that is added nothing is going to change.

 

[bustaheims]

I guess if you consider the whole second half of the season to be a "non-significant stretch", then sure. They've been running barely
above 500 since late December (if they played that way the whole season, good chance they miss the playoffs) and have looked
ugly a lot of the time. Injuries lately have compounded the issue but they've looked pretty mediocre for a long time now. Can they
step it up when the real games count? Maybe. They've played some games along the way where I think "this team could go deep
into the playoffs", so if that team shows up who knows. Problem is, other teams will also be stepping it up.

And for a big chunk at the beginning of that stretch, they were running with their 3rd string goalie. Not many teams wouldn?t struggle in that situation, and that makes it pretty irrelevant as a segment to judge their season by. They?re 13-7-3 since the All Star break. That?s a 103 point pace. They?ve had a rough couple weeks since they lost Gardiner and Dermott, but they were pretty good before that. It?s not that they?ve looked mediocre for a long time, it?s that they?ve struggled when key players have been hurt in areas where they don?t have depth. This shouldn?t be a surprise to anyone, and that lack of depth is the real concern. Everything else stems from that.

 

[Chris]

I guess if you consider the whole second half of the season to be a "non-significant stretch", then sure. They've been running barely
above 500 since late December (if they played that way the whole season, good chance they miss the playoffs) and have looked
ugly a lot of the time. Injuries lately have compounded the issue but they've looked pretty mediocre for a long time now. Can they
step it up when the real games count? Maybe. They've played some games along the way where I think "this team could go deep
into the playoffs", so if that team shows up who knows. Problem is, other teams will also be stepping it up.

And for a big chunk at the beginning of that stretch, they were running with their 3rd string goalie. Not many teams wouldn?t struggle in that situation, and that makes it pretty irrelevant as a segment to judge their season by. They?re 13-7-3 since the All Star break. That?s a 103 point pace. They?ve had a rough couple weeks since they lost Gardiner and Dermott, but they were pretty good before that. It?s not that they?ve looked mediocre for a long time, it?s that they?ve struggled when key players have been hurt in areas where they don?t have depth. This shouldn?t be a surprise to anyone, and that lack of depth is the real concern. Everything else stems from that.

Yeah, I get what you're saying but I just don't see it when I watch games. As noted in a post right above yours, I see a team
that is overly reliant on its goaltender (great when he's on top of his game) and it's high skill level rather than work ethic. When
the bounces go their way they look great. When they don't, the lack of effort and "heaviness" becomes apparent. Lots of their offense consists of one and done, or they look for the perfect play and wind up giving the puck away and having to play defense
(which they don't do well) for long stretches. The Matthews line often winds up trapped in their own zone.

Again, young team, plenty of time to improve those aspects of the game and maybe it requires a rough first round (sweep or
lose in 5) to ignite someone like Matthews to actually put out more effort rather than just complain about the team quitting.

With that said...man does this team need to find a way to shed the Marleau contract next year. If we have to give up one or both
of Johnsson/Kapanen because of him, that will be a real shame. For the most part, passing the puck to him anymore is the same
as giving it away to the other team. I hope he finds another gear for the playoffs but not sure he has it left at this point.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

Just a few quick points on that last few games:

1. The leafs defense, with Gardiner and Dermott, was at best, average defensively, and many times this season we relied heavily on Andersen. Without them, they're abysmal on the back end. Holl/Marincin/Oz are not NHL players, and the only reason they're up with the team is because we don't want to hinder the development of the 4 Swedes in the AHL. I really think that Dubas should have gone a little further to get some depth D at the trade deadline, but hindsight, etc etc. When Dermott comes back, and if Rosen can step in, I think we'll see a substantial improvement, even if Gardiner won't be available.

2. I'm always really wary of playing teams at the end of the season that have gutted their lineup. We're on the second game of a back to back, and you're playing a team full of prospects and depth players that are literally playing for a chance to make a career. Beware the team that has nothing to lose on a big saturday night stage at home. Sure, that sounds like an excuse, but a lot of those sens players were playing desperation hockey, and the leafs are a young team that is still maturing in many ways.

3. I get the idea that a lot of leaf fans only watch leaf games. I play beer league 4 times a week, and come back too wired to sleep, so I watch a lot of other games, and apart from Tampa, the parity in the league now is really a big, big factor. So many games happen now that would have been termed major upsets based on record, but that are really just that any team can beat any other in any given night. If one analyzes a team's result on a game by game basis, you'll drive yourself nuts.

Finally, I don't know if it came up in this GDT, but it really bugged me that Hrudey went after Nylander about smiling after being robbed by the sens goalie. Playing hockey at any level is supposed to be fun, and I've always been a fan of this generation of players that are not afraid to show that they're having fun playing it. The last thing I want to see is some dinosaur telling these kids to stop showing their love for the game in-game.

 

[IJustLurkHere]

So many games happen now that would have been termed major upsets based on record, but that are really just that any team can beat any other in any given night. If one analyzes a team's result on a game by game basis, you'll drive yourself nuts.

Sorry to pick out a single point from a really good post, and then take it on a tangent... but I have been wondering what the sports science guys do with the various NHL teams training regimens when they?re in a position like a Leafs/Bruins or particularly Tampa.

I?d presume there?s some sort of extra training loading going on which will then taper come playoff time... hockey is heavy on endurance so there must be some variety of it. I then wonder what the impact is on individual games.

Not saying it is the reason for poor performances or the like... but IF a team were hypothetically deliberately adding load to player training programs, you might expect that some players, and particularly young players, might look lethargic as a result of fatigue... and find themselves less competitive against teams you?d normally expect them to beat easily who aren?t experiencing the same workload.

 

[ZBBM]

Cherry-picking nonsignificant stretches of the season to hone whatever ax one wants to grind ... it's a hockey tradition.

The Leafs haven't won a single game since you posted this.

This screams "death spiral."

 

[ZBBM]

So many games happen now that would have been termed major upsets based on record, but that are really just that any team can beat any other in any given night. If one analyzes a team's result on a game by game basis, you'll drive yourself nuts.

Sorry to pick out a single point from a really good post, and then take it on a tangent... but I have been wondering what the sports science guys do with the various NHL teams training regimens when they?re in a position like a Leafs/Bruins or particularly Tampa.

I?d presume there?s some sort of extra training loading going on which will then taper come playoff time... hockey is heavy on endurance so there must be some variety of it. I then wonder what the impact is on individual games.

Not saying it is the reason for poor performances or the like... but IF a team were hypothetically deliberately adding load to player training programs, you might expect that some players, and particularly young players, might look lethargic as a result of fatigue... and find themselves less competitive against teams you?d normally expect them to beat easily who aren?t experiencing the same workload.

To take this further on a tangent, a lot of us (myself included) have criticized Babcock for not playing the stars more.  And several folks on here have observed that it's intentional, he doesn't want to wear out the guys before the playoffs in case they do go deep.

He sticks to his game plan, game in and game out.  He doesn't throw guys out there for extra shifts much, hardly at all as far as I've noticed, and especially not to make same kind of push in games like last night which, while not meaningless, aren't worth sacrificing the plan for.

We'll see if it pays off.  In a close series it might.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

So many games happen now that would have been termed major upsets based on record, but that are really just that any team can beat any other in any given night. If one analyzes a team's result on a game by game basis, you'll drive yourself nuts.

Sorry to pick out a single point from a really good post, and then take it on a tangent... but I have been wondering what the sports science guys do with the various NHL teams training regimens when they?re in a position like a Leafs/Bruins or particularly Tampa.

I?d presume there?s some sort of extra training loading going on which will then taper come playoff time... hockey is heavy on endurance so there must be some variety of it. I then wonder what the impact is on individual games.

Not saying it is the reason for poor performances or the like... but IF a team were hypothetically deliberately adding load to player training programs, you might expect that some players, and particularly young players, might look lethargic as a result of fatigue... and find themselves less competitive against teams you?d normally expect them to beat easily who aren?t experiencing the same workload.

To take this further on a tangent, a lot of us (myself included) have criticized Babcock for not playing the stars more.  And several folks on here have observed that it's intentional, he doesn't want to wear out the guys before the playoffs in case they do go deep.

He sticks to his game plan, game in and game out.  He doesn't throw guys out there for extra shifts much, hardly at all as far as I've noticed, and especially not to make same kind of push in games like last night which, while not meaningless, aren't worth sacrificing the plan for.

We'll see if it pays off.  In a close series it might.

I mean, we could look at the top 10 TOI forwards in the league and then take a look at where their team sits in the standings. I get that some of that is due to their teams overall skill levels, and that's also a reason they're getting more ice, but you don't see the top teams over using their skilled players

http://www.espn.com/nhl/statistics/player/_/stat/timeonice/sort/avgTimeOnIce/qualified/false/position/forwards