Matthews signs 5 year contract, $11.634mil AAV

[CarltonTheBear]

It is crazy. On what comparables does he deserve to be the highest paid player in the league? I thought contracts were all about comparables? Yeah he's pro rated for 50 goals 100 points this year. Point is, he's not getting that since he's not playing 82 games nor did he play 82 last season, and that's not even the most points in the league if he got there. Hell it might not even be top on the team, yet he deserves to he highest paid in the league? How?

It's hard to find comparables sometimes when you're in a class of your own:

https://twitter.com/JeffVeillette/status/1092872862510264321

 

[Kin]

I thought contracts were all about comparables?

You were wrong.

That will be 100 dollars, please.

 

[ZBBM]

FWIW I mostly agree with Zee.  If management thinks Matthews is the best player on the team (which IMO, at the moment anyway, he isn't) then he should be signed for as long as possible. 

To me the real conundrum here is not term, it's what this means for Marner's contract.  I totally do not get the argument that this contract means Marner's will be under 10.  Right now, you can make a very good argument that Marner is the best player, night in and night out, among the big 4.  Not by a huge margin (over AM  & JT at least), but simply looking at their on-ice performance, there is no way Marner deserves nearly $2M less than either Matthews or Tavares.

There's an old saying: just because I'm paranoid, it doesn't mean people aren't out to get me.  Paul Marner may be a hockeydad, but that doesn't mean he's wrong about what Marner deserves on his contract.

I can see Marner coming in on a 3 year bridge cause they can't make the number fit with him at 11.6 as well.

Maybe.  But the next contract would logically take him right past 91 and 34 ... not sure that works in the dressing room.

Let's say they sign Marner at 11ishx8.  Then when Matthews' five year deal is up, assuming he's performing like a superstar, then ideally you sign him for massive dollars at massive term, whatever the market is then.  He ends up being the highest paid player on the team, which seems to be the scenario people are selling as "right."

 

[ZBBM]

Someone square this circle for me:

How can the market for Marner be simultaneously inextricably linked to both what Kucherov got and what Matthews got?

Easy -- it isn't.  It has nothing to do with Kucherov.  The whole scale of relevance is entirely within the team.

 

[ZBBM]

It is crazy. On what comparables does he deserve to be the highest paid player in the league? I thought contracts were all about comparables? Yeah he's pro rated for 50 goals 100 points this year. Point is, he's not getting that since he's not playing 82 games nor did he play 82 last season, and that's not even the most points in the league if he got there. Hell it might not even be top on the team, yet he deserves to he highest paid in the league? How?

It's hard to find comparables sometimes when you're in a class of your own:

https://twitter.com/JeffVeillette/status/1092872862510264321

That doesn't address Zee's point.

 

[Kin]

Well, as I said I don't think Matthews is the best player on the team right now so I'm not saying this is a terrible deal.  (I don't think it's a slam-dunk winner either, though.)  Maybe management agrees with me; if that's their behind-closed-doors logic, then perhaps they are setting the table for an $11ishx8 contract for Marner.

That in no way addresses what I said. If you think the Leafs should have paid Matthews more to get him to sign for longer and you think Marner's value is linked to Matthews then signing Matthews to the longer term deal makes them both more expensive.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

That doesn't address Zee's point.

He asked what has he done to deserve being the highest paid player in the league and I responded by saying that he's showing the ability to be one of the best goal scorers in the entire history of the league. That doesn't answer the question?

 

[ZBBM]

Well, as I said I don't think Matthews is the best player on the team right now so I'm not saying this is a terrible deal.  (I don't think it's a slam-dunk winner either, though.)  Maybe management agrees with me; if that's their behind-closed-doors logic, then perhaps they are setting the table for an $11ishx8 contract for Marner.

That in no way addresses what I said. If you think the Leafs should have paid Matthews more to get him to sign for longer and you think Marner's value is linked to Matthews then signing Matthews to the longer term deal makes them both more expensive.

I said the Leafs should have done that *if they think he's the best player on the team.*  Maybe they don't think that.

 

[Kin]

Easy.  It has nothing to do with Kucherov.  The whole scale of relevance is entirely within the team.

Interestingly, I don't think Dubas, or whoever the Leafs GM is, gets to unilaterally declare what deals are or aren't relevant.

 

[Kin]

I said the Leafs should have done that *if they think he's the best player on the team.*  Maybe they don't think that.

Or they think he's the best player on the team and want him at a lower cap hit for the next 5 years?

 

[ZBBM]

That doesn't address Zee's point.

He asked what has he done to deserve being the highest paid player in the league and I responded by saying that he's showing the ability to be one of the best goal scorers in the entire history of the league. That doesn't answer the question?

Zee was making a point about diminished returns due to repeated injuries. 

Eric Lindros.  Wonderful player, otherworld talent, but....  You can't score from IR.

Is Matthews "injury prone"?  Who knows?  But I have argued that maybe he has to change the way he plays to avoid getting these pinball injuries while maneuvering in close quarters.

 

[Zee]

It is crazy. On what comparables does he deserve to be the highest paid player in the league? I thought contracts were all about comparables? Yeah he's pro rated for 50 goals 100 points this year. Point is, he's not getting that since he's not playing 82 games nor did he play 82 last season, and that's not even the most points in the league if he got there. Hell it might not even be top on the team, yet he deserves to he highest paid in the league? How?

It's hard to find comparables sometimes when you're in a class of your own:

https://twitter.com/JeffVeillette/status/1092872862510264321

That doesn't address Zee's point.

They never do, just blindly toe the company line and agree that Matthews deserves to be the highest paid player in the league when he hasn't done anything to earn that yet. I love the player, but the cap hit is way out of line for what he's accomplished so far in his career.  I would have been happy if this same cap hit was for the full 8 years but hey, who am I to be a dissenting voice?

 

[ZBBM]

Easy.  It has nothing to do with Kucherov.  The whole scale of relevance is entirely within the team.

Interestingly, I don't think Dubas, or whoever the Leafs GM is, gets to unilaterally declare what deals are or aren't relevant.

Last I heard nothing is unilateral in a negotiation.  And if the Marner camps thinks it's irrelevant, then Dubas can't just declare that it is.  Well, he can, but then Marner won't be signing.

 

[Kin]

Imagine being a fully grown adult and thinking that what everyone makes is about what they "deserve".

 

[ZBBM]

I said the Leafs should have done that *if they think he's the best player on the team.*  Maybe they don't think that.

Or they think he's the best player on the team and want him at a lower cap hit for the next 5 years?

Or they think he isn't, and want him at a lower cap hit for the next 5 years.

 

[Kin]

Last I heard nothing is unilateral in a negotiation.

Right. The team pay scale is not the only thing Marner and his representation will be looking at. That's what I just said.

 

[ZBBM]

Imagine being a fully grown adult and thinking that what everyone makes is about what they "deserve".

It's the fully grown adult default position in a negotiation where you are an exceptionally talented individual who can't just be replaced by the next guy on the assembly line.

 

[Zee]

Easy.  It has nothing to do with Kucherov.  The whole scale of relevance is entirely within the team.

Interestingly, I don't think Dubas, or whoever the Leafs GM is, gets to unilaterally declare what deals are or aren't relevant.

Last I heard nothing is unilateral in a negotiation.  And if the Marner camps thinks it's irrelevant, then Dubas can't just declare that it is.  Well, he can, but then Marner won't be signing.

Matthews could have signed for 20% of the cap and there would be guys on here defending the deal. Amazing how you're not allowed to question management despite seeing other teams manage their own players salaries better.

 

[Kin]

Or they think he isn't, and want him at a lower cap hit for the next 5 years.

So they think he isn't, but still agreed to give him the highest cap hit on the team?

 

[Kin]

It's the fully grown adult default position in a negotiation where you are an exceptionally talented individual who can't just be replaced by the next guy on the assembly line.

Dude, I say this as someone who I hope you agree generally knows his stuff but you aren't making any sense right now. Not even from post to post.