GhostofPotvin29
New member
CarltonTheBear said:
He's apparently got a great shot. Was originally projected to be a first rounder heading into his draft year then fell to 4th round.
Of Nonis, Babcock & who the heck is going to be running this asylum on draft day
- Thread starter ZBBM
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He's apparently got a great shot. Was originally projected to be a first rounder heading into his draft year then fell to 4th round.
Nik the Trik said:
That assumes ALL the rumours said "Mantha and a 1st" or prospect and a 1st. Simple fact is: they didn't.
For example:
[THN link
That March 2nd one talks about Brendan Smith and doesn't mention a pick with Weiss & Phaneuf.
Others talked about the Leafs keeping $2 mil/yr of Phaneuf's cap OR Weiss scenario I mentioned - which again, makes some sense in the realm of equivalent value that might interest both parties.
Mantha and a 1st couldn't be ignored in every rumour because they weren't in a number of the rumours. Some sort of notion of the Leafs taking back some salary via paying some of Phaneuf's deal or taking back Weiss/Kindl did seem to be in every deal I heard. None that I heard suggested the Leafs pay part of Phaneuf's contract PLUS take back Weiss (again, to me, that's wildly overloaded against the Leafs).
Kin
New member
cw said:
It doesn't assume that. Even if you want to use Mantha and a 1st as a hypothetical then the point is fundamentally the same and inescapably true, you can't assess the "value" of what was being discussed without factoring in what legitimate assets were coming Toronto's way. You're right that holding a portion of Phaneuf's salary and taking Weiss' contract would load the deal unfairly financially but the money is only a portion of the consideration. Here's a Red Wing blogger weighing in on how fair the hypothetical deal would be if it was only with the Leafs retaining salary:
http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2015/3/2/8135705/nick-kypreos-weighs-on-trade-rumors-maple-leafs-dion-phaneuf-to-detroit
One blogger's opinion? Sure. But again as I said in my post, I'd feel exactly the same way about it only reversed. Mantha and a 1st for Phaneuf and only one of those two bitter pills? I couldn't say yes fast enough and if there's a situation where you can't say yes fast enough to a hypothetical trade it's a pretty safe bet that it's not going to materialize in the real world.
GhostofPotvin29
New member
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-p-k-subban-now-another-level/
Potvin29 said:
I don't know how one can justify keeping a GM who was in on that. In fact, I'm sure they're not going to.
Nonis seems like a nice guy but as part of the rebuild, they've got to keep that nice guy away from the cheque book because he's simply been "too nice" when entering into contracts with players.
What... CW You don't think that Bettman could rig the lottery for us to get McDavid?cw said:CarltonTheBear said:
Taking Weiss back also makes Bozak more tradeable. Because Weiss can provide depth while the youngsters get up to speed.
Of course, I'd like to know the results of the lottery before I pull the trigger on getting Weiss now ... because if they were to win the lottery ....
cw said:
Wonder if Nonis is going to be out the door soon? You look at that list & it's just a case of chronic misspending. Noticed others on Leafs management talking Nonis up publicly but that list...Yikes.
Do they really want Nonis to be the guy cleaning up this mess when it was largely done by his hand in the first place?
ZBBM
Active member
Mike1 said:
I'm all in favor of Nonis getting the boot but comparing the total amount of nonplaying salary when parts of it strecth out over years with a single year's cap floor is worse than useless as a criticism -- it's downright misleading. Especially when a bunch comes off in July, Frattin and Bodie could conceivably be called up, etc.
GhostofPotvin29
New member
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
Almost like he mentions that!
Nowhere does he say they are committed to spending $51 million this year on the players. Showing the cap floor number is to put into perspective how much financial clout the Leafs' ownership has - they are able to commit right now to spending as much on non-playing salary as the NHL cap floor is.
It couldn't be clearer: Right now, Toronto is committed to spending almost $51.5 million on players who are not in their NHL lineup. That's just the fact of the matter. They are committed to that right now.
Heroic Shrimp
Active member
Who, if anybody, has more dead money going out the door? Philadelphia?
LuncheonMeat
New member
herman said:
I would think so, but that may not have been the case with Burke as he was reported to have autonomy.
All a team can do is hire the best people, and trust that they will make good decisions for the organization going forward. Clearly Nonis hasn't accomplished this. But he knows the game better than the people who hired him, so they have to be able to trust him to make those decisions. Although, maybe not so much now.
Mike1 said:
You look down the road a little. UFAs evaluating places to play. Does coming to a city like Toronto with the perception of Nonis in charge compete well with other cities? His MO in Toronto right now is to spend to the cap, miss the playoffs and eat a ton of bad contracts.
But to me, it's really done before that. He's had to go before the board to justify his major expenditures (Grabovksi, Clarkson, etc). The MLSE board may not understand hockey talent as well as Nonis but they understand money and bad contracts as well or better. Their confidence in Nonis has to be shot. He's developing a bad pattern of pitching them to do a significant deal and then 15 months later pitching to them to buy the deal out or eat the contract. That will not compute with these guys. Their trust in him and his word has to be severely shaken.
Heroic Shrimp said:
Briere $13 mil left for buyout including this season
Bryzgalov $22 mil left for buyout including this season
Pronger $4.9 x 3yr left = 14.7
===================
That tally is $49.7 without considering contracts in the minors so they're pretty darn close.
Kin
New member
LuncheonMeat said:I would think so, but that may not have been the case with Burke as he was reported to have autonomy.
All a team can do is hire the best people, and trust that they will make good decisions for the organization going forward. Clearly Nonis hasn't accomplished this. But he knows the game better than the people who hired him, so they have to be able to trust him to make those decisions. Although, maybe not so much now.
No, I mean a team can do one more thing which is the most crucial. They can give them meaningful autonomy, not the "autonomy" that Burke had where he could do whatever he wanted so long as it fit into the narrow constraints of the "never rebuild" philosophy MLSE used for so long. JFJ didn't have that and he made bad decisions, Burke didn't and he made bad decisions, Nonis didn't and he made bad decisions.
But now it seems like Shanahan does and, since he was brought on board, what has Nonis done? Largely good things. Signed Winnik and Santorelli, traded Clarkson, got good returns on the players that were dealt at the deadline, drafted Nylander. Throw in some things that are either largely inconsequential(Robidas) or uncertain(Gardiner) and you're left with a list of things that actually sort of reflect well on what anyone who's running a rebuilding team will have to do, identify good bargain UFAs that can be dealt, draft well, clear up bad salary...that's what Nonis has done since MLSE pulled their heads out of their butts.
I'm not 100% on bringing Nonis back because if Shanahan thinks that the team needs a real architect going forward besides him then yeah, this summer might be a good time to identify that guy and let him institute a long range strategy but if Shanahan wants to be that guy then I think Nonis has done pretty well with the things he'll be asked to do. So the conversation should definitely happen but I don't think Nonis should be fired as a punitive measure for decisions that really don't reflect on what he's going to be tasked with over the next year or two.
Rebel_1812
New member
what about the draft record? Our first round picks under the burke and nonis era have been meh, and there have been no late round finds.