Panthers @ Leafs - Jan. 30th, 7:00pm - SN, SN 590

[lc9]

Leafs going to the PK.  That is a really poor call.

 

[x.jr.benchwarmer]

The Panthers color analyst Bill Lindsay just referred to Phaneuf's play as 'yikes!'  Gunnar and Dion are a bad combo with ther lack of speed IMHO.

 

[bustaheims]

I look at it overall myself.  If you are looking for problems on this team this year, Raymond is way down the list.

I'm looking for roster and lineup spots that need to be improved upon, and Raymond occupies one of them. When he's not producing, which he hasn't been doing much of over the past 2 months, he's not particularly useful. He's not great defensively, he's not a physical presence or anything else you'd look for from a 3rd line winger who might not contribute offensively on a consistent basis. He's a fine placeholder, but, that's all he should be.

 

[2badknees]

If Raymond is suddenly a whipping boy, shouldn't Kulemin be even higher on the list? Doesn't produce points, same +/- as Raymond. Makes way more $.

 

[ZBBM]

I look at it overall myself.  If you are looking for problems on this team this year, Raymond is way down the list.

I'm looking for roster and lineup spots that need to be improved upon, and Raymond occupies one of them. When he's not producing, which he hasn't been doing much of over the past 2 months, he's not particularly useful. He's not great defensively, he's not a physical presence or anything else you'd look for from a 3rd line winger who might not contribute offensively on a consistent basis. He's a fine placeholder, but, that's all he should be.

I'm not arguing that they have to re-sign him (certainly not at a higher cost), but you are being overcritical.  His line, as it was in the 1st, has been better cycling the puck than any of the others.  I don't see him dogging it out there.  He's been a good 3rd liner.

 

[bustaheims]

If Raymond is suddenly a whipping boy, shouldn't Kulemin be even higher on the list? Doesn't produce points, same +/- as Raymond. Makes way more $.

He does all the other things that Raymond doesn't do when he's not producing offensively. He's useful when he's not scoring. Raymond is not.

 

[lc9]

Get the puck out please.

 

[ZBBM]

Whoa.  Clemm channeling Bernier the other nite.

 

[lc9]

Man, sooooo close by Lupul there.

 

[Kin]

He's not great defensively, he's not a physical presence or anything else you'd look for from a 3rd line winger who might not contribute offensively on a consistent basis.

In fairness, though, I think this team with the idea that the third line would be a better line offensive line than it's been. I agree that he's a bad choice for the missing piece of a Smith-Clarkson line but Bolland-Kulemin? Or Bolland-Not crummy Clarkson? 

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

If Raymond is suddenly a whipping boy, shouldn't Kulemin be even higher on the list? Doesn't produce points, same +/- as Raymond. Makes way more $.

Anybody not named P.K. JVR or Bernier can GTFO.

 

[bustaheims]

I'm not arguing that they have to re-sign him (certainly not at a higher cost), but you are being overcritical.  His line, as it was in the 1st, has been better cycling the puck than any of the others.  I don't see him dogging it out there.  He's been a good 3rd liner.

The only times I really notice him most nights is when the play is dying on his stick. He's been a little more useful tonight, but, otherwise . . . I don't really think he's even particularly good on the cycle most nights. It seems like he's often the last Leaf to touch the puck when the cycle breaks down.

 

[lc9]

Orr has exactly zero hockey skill.  If you find any boxer his size that can skate well enough to stay upright you would have the same player. 

 

[Kin]

If Raymond is suddenly a whipping boy, shouldn't Kulemin be even higher on the list? Doesn't produce points, same +/- as Raymond. Makes way more $.

Kulemin has three times as many hits and blocked shots.

 

[bustaheims]

In fairness, though, I think this team with the idea that the third line would be a better line offensive line than it's been. I agree that he's a bad choice for the missing piece of a Smith-Clarkson line but Bolland-Kulemin? Or Bolland-Not crummy Clarkson?

I think, even with those combinations, you want someone who is a better physical presence. Make the 3rd line a real grind line. A line that's tough to play against and really wears down the competition. Or, at the very least, someone that comes to play every night, and I don't really see that out of Raymond.

 

[ZBBM]

I'm not arguing that they have to re-sign him (certainly not at a higher cost), but you are being overcritical.  His line, as it was in the 1st, has been better cycling the puck than any of the others.  I don't see him dogging it out there.  He's been a good 3rd liner.

The only times I really notice him most nights is when the play is dying on his stick. He's been a little more useful tonight, but, otherwise . . . I don't really think he's even particularly good on the cycle most nights. It seems like he's often the last Leaf to touch the puck when the cycle breaks down.

Well, frankly I think 2badknees has a point if you compare him with Kulemin.  If Kulemin is considered value for money, then there's no way in hell that Raymond isn't as well.

Anyway, that's all for me on this topic.

 

[lc9]

Getting outplayed pretty good.

Gleason hasn't left the ice tonight.

 

[ZBBM]

Hook Lupul, no call.  Busted stick, no call.

 

[bustaheims]

Well, frankly I think 2badknees has a point if you compare him with Kulemin.  If Kulemin is considered value for money, then there's no way in hell that Raymond isn't as well.

Anyway, that's all for me on this topic.

And, as I pointed out to 2badknees, Kulemin does all the things you want out of a 3rd liner when he isn't producing that I don't see from Raymond. Kulemin's value for the money because of his play without the puck. Raymond, on the other hand, is not very good without it and has been inconsistent with it.

 

[2badknees]

If Raymond is suddenly a whipping boy, shouldn't Kulemin be even higher on the list? Doesn't produce points, same +/- as Raymond. Makes way more $.

Kulemin has three times as many hits and blocked shots.

And Raymond has twice as many points. Perhaps the issue isn't the quality of the player. Perhaps its because he's not a fit as a  3rd line player.