Panthers @ Leafs - Jan. 30th, 7:00pm - SN, SN 590

[2badknees]

How was there not a hook call on lupul's rush?

 

[lc9]

Blatant hook on Lupul then a florida player playing with a broken stick, no penalty on either.  Wake up refs.

 

[Kin]

I think, even with those combinations, you want someone who is a better physical presence. Make the 3rd line a real grind line. A line that's tough to play against and really wears down the competition. Or, at the very least, someone that comes to play every night, and I don't really see that out of Raymond.

Which you could do if you made a Kulemin-Bolland-Not awful Clarkson at which point you bump Raymond to the "2nd" line which, as you mention, is where he's produced reasonably well.

Anyways, I'm not a huge advocate of bringing Raymond back as I think there are younger, cheaper options. I just think he's provided good value.

 

[ZBBM]

There yo go ... 14-15 Leafs = Bernier/Clemmensen.

 

[Britishbulldog]

Bodie is making some decent passes tonight.  I really like his game this year.

He's been more effective than Clarkson, which is painful to say, cause I like clarkson.

Yeah, I really like Clarkson too and hope the experiment works.  With all the Clarkson hype this summer by the Leaf management/media and even the legend Clark was really unfortunate. 

Clarkson's genuine delight to play in his hometown is a shame as well since he has missed massive time this year for various reasons and has played significantly under the created hype.

 

[bustaheims]

Anyways, I'm not a huge advocate of bringing Raymond back as I think there are younger, cheaper options. I just think he's provided good value.

He did provide good value. I guess what I'm getting at is that I don't think he's providing it anymore.

EDIT: In all honesty, when I think of how to put the lineup together when everyone is healthy, Raymond is the player I find doesn't have a spot anymore.

 

[lc9]

Trip on Kadri, no call.  These refs are blantantly awful. 

 

[Kin]

And Raymond has twice as many points.

In part because he's been used on the PP whereas Kadri hasn't and in part because his most frequent linemates have been Lupul and Kadri when Kulemin's have been McClement and Clarkson.

Kulemin's been better in his role than Raymond has in his. That's why there's less criticism of Kulemin.

 

[lc9]

This game would be more fun if it were tied.  As soon as the leafs get a lead they just collapse, barely have one forechecker. 

Panthers carrying the play.

 

[ZBBM]

That was a nice little pass there by Kessel.  And good backcheck on the previous by JVR.

 

[lc9]

I don't look forward to Clarkson coming back, he has been some kind of awful. 

 

[Kin]

He did provide good value. I guess what I'm getting at is that I don't think he's providing it anymore.

I think, on balance, most people would be happy with a 14 goal, 35 ish point performance from a 1 million dollar winger for a season, let alone 55 games.

But I hear you. There are long stretches of games where I don't think Phaneuf or Kessel are good value either.

 

[lc9]

Finally the refs stop cheating.

 

[Arn]

Boyes is a pretty tidy, good player

 

[Britishbulldog]

Well, frankly I think 2badknees has a point if you compare him with Kulemin.  If Kulemin is considered value for money, then there's no way in hell that Raymond isn't as well.

Anyway, that's all for me on this topic.

And, as I pointed out to 2badknees, Kulemin does all the things you want out of a 3rd liner when he isn't producing that I don't see from Raymond. Kulemin's value for the money because of his play without the puck. Raymond, on the other hand, is not very good without it and has been inconsistent with it.

Bang on bustaheims, bang on.  And like you said in another post, when the Leafs are all healthy Raymond is the player I can't fit in.

 

[lc9]

What a poor powerplay, not using any open ice.  Panthers had more puck possession.

 

[ZBBM]

That last sequence is why Franson really needs to be sent packing.  He just cruised back and let the FLA man get the puck.  Slooooow.

 

[Britishbulldog]

Phaneuf with 3 really, REALLY bad plays in one shift on the PP

 

[lc9]

Well, frankly I think 2badknees has a point if you compare him with Kulemin.  If Kulemin is considered value for money, then there's no way in hell that Raymond isn't as well.

Anyway, that's all for me on this topic.

And, as I pointed out to 2badknees, Kulemin does all the things you want out of a 3rd liner when he isn't producing that I don't see from Raymond. Kulemin's value for the money because of his play without the puck. Raymond, on the other hand, is not very good without it and has been inconsistent with it.

Bang on bustaheims, bang on.  And like you said in another post, when the Leafs are all healthy Raymond is the player I can't fit in.

Well I am not sure about that.  There is definitely spot for Raymond when everyone is healthy. 

 

[2badknees]

Interesting that Bolland's salary over the last 4 seasons is only marginally higher than Kulemin's cap hit. Both are third liners. So has Bolland massively overachieved in his career, or has Kulemin underachieved relative to his cap hit?

I'd argue the latter.