Panthers @ Leafs - Jan. 30th, 7:00pm - SN, SN 590

[lc9]

Man, Panthers have outplayed the leafs, happy to have the lead though.

 

[bustaheims]

Bang on bustaheims, bang on.  And like you said in another post, when the Leafs are all healthy Raymond is the player I can't fit in.

Yeah. I mean, while I'd prefer to see him in over Orr, Raymond's not suited for the 4th line at all, so, really, it's a toss up there - and, we all know Carlyle would put Orr in any way.

 

[x.jr.benchwarmer]

Gardiner's rush at the end of the period was absolutely terrific.  His upside is one reason he should be starting on the PP IMHO.

 

[bustaheims]

Well I am not sure about that.  There is definitely spot for Raymond when everyone is healthy.

Where? Without sending anyone to the Marlies or trading someone, you have 10 players vying for the top 9 spots, with Raymond really looking like the odd one out. Unless you put Raymond on the 4th line - where he's a really poor fit - I just don't see where he plays.

 

[Kin]

Interesting that Bolland's salary over the last 4 seasons is only marginally higher than Kulemin's cap hit. Both are third liners. So has Bolland massively overachieved in his career, or has Kulemin underachieved relative to his cap hit?

I'd argue the latter.

Well, you say Bolland was a "third liner" in those years but last year he played with Kane and Sharp and over the  seasons you're talking about Bolland scored 41 goals and 88 points to Kulemin's 44 and 108.

 

[bustaheims]

Interesting that Bolland's salary over the last 4 seasons is only marginally higher than Kulemin's cap hit. Both are third liners. So has Bolland massively overachieved in his career, or has Kulemin underachieved relative to his cap hit?

I'd argue the latter.

Or, you can look at the real reason behind their respective cap hits, and it's that Bolland signed a 5 year deal when the cap was significantly lower - which means the pay scale for his role and his comparables was lower than when Kulemin signed his 2 year deal. Also, the $575K difference is not insignificant - that's more than 20% of Kulemin's cap hit.

 

[lc9]

Where? Without sending anyone to the Marlies or trading someone, you have 10 players vying for the top 9 spots, with Raymond really looking like the odd one out. Unless you put Raymond on the 4th line - where he's a really poor fit - I just don't see where he plays.

We are only missing Bolland and Clarkson.  That's Bodie and Ashton.  Raymond won't be sitting.

 

[x.jr.benchwarmer]

Phaneuf with 3 really, REALLY bad plays in one shift on the PP

This may indeed be absolutely true but we must be careful not to offend the Dion supporters on this site. 

 

[ZBBM]

We are only missing Bolland and Clarkson.  That's Bodie and Ashton.  Raymond won't be sitting.

To shift gears a little, I haven't seen one thing out of Ashton that leads me to think he'll stick in the NHL.  Wasn't he a 1st rounder?

 

[2badknees]

Kulemin has really only had one notable year in terms of point production - 10-11, and has dropped off considerably.

You don't need to spend 3M to get a guy that can hit and block shots and isn't a liability defensively. Its fairly easy to go around the league and find players who plays a similar game with similar minutes for far less cap hit.

Raymond has produced when put in a position to play with offensively skilled players. If he's the team whipping boy because he hasn't been able to keep up his production while playing with Kulemin and Clarkson, then that's a shame.

 

[Bill_Berg]

We are only missing Bolland and Clarkson.  That's Bodie and Ashton.  Raymond won't be sitting.

To shift gears a little, I haven't seen one thing out of Ashton that leads me to think he'll stick in the NHL.  Wasn't he a 1st rounder?

Yep. 29th overall.

 

[bustaheims]

We are only missing Bolland and Clarkson.  That's Bodie and Ashton.  Raymond won't be sitting.

It's really not that simple. How do you put the lineup together? I see it this way (with some accommodations made for the coach's preferences):

JvR - Bozak - Kessel
Lupul - Holland - Kadri
Kulemin - Bolland - Clarkson
Ashton/Bodie - McClement - Orr

I mean, suppose you could put Raymond in on the 4th line there, but, he's a really poor fit that there, and, with the way Carlyle uses his bench, being on the 4th line is almost like being a healthy scratch.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

You don't need to spend 3M to get a guy that can hit and block shots and isn't a liability defensively. Its fairly easy to go around the league and find players who plays a similar game with similar minutes for far less cap hit.

Who would you recommend?  I'm open to suggestions.

 

[bustaheims]

To shift gears a little, I haven't seen one thing out of Ashton that leads me to think he'll stick in the NHL.  Wasn't he a 1st rounder?

Really hard to judge the guy on the 5-6 minutes a night he's getting.

 

[2badknees]

We are only missing Bolland and Clarkson.  That's Bodie and Ashton.  Raymond won't be sitting.

To shift gears a little, I haven't seen one thing out of Ashton that leads me to think he'll stick in the NHL.  Wasn't he a 1st rounder?

Well, he's shown he can take a punch.

 

[ZBBM]

We are only missing Bolland and Clarkson.  That's Bodie and Ashton.  Raymond won't be sitting.

It's really not that simple. How do you put the lineup together? I see it this way (with some accommodations made for the coach's preferences):

JvR - Bozak - Kessel
Lupul - Holland - Kadri
Kulemin - Bolland - Clarkson
Ashton/Bodie - McClement - Orr

I mean, suppose you could put Raymond in on the 4th line there, but, he's a really poor fit that there, and, with the way Carlyle uses his bench, being on the 4th line is almost like being a healthy scratch.

Why not Clarkson on the 4th line?

 

[Kin]

Kulemin has really only had one notable year in terms of point production - 10-11, and has dropped off considerably.

True, but even if you exclude Kulemin's big season and only use the last two seasons to compare him to Bolland they're still tied at 51 points and, I remind you, one of those seasons saw Bolland playing between Patricks Kane and Sharp.

 

[ZBBM]

To shift gears a little, I haven't seen one thing out of Ashton that leads me to think he'll stick in the NHL.  Wasn't he a 1st rounder?

Really hard to judge the guy on the 5-6 minutes a night he's getting.

He's been around long enough.  Never scored yet, I believe.

 

[bustaheims]

Why not Clarkson on the 4th line?

Because RW on the 4th line is Orr's spot. Seriously, though, that's really the only option that fits Raymond into the lineup, but, at the same time, I think that makes the 3rd line less effective in terms of being able to grinding, physical line and really makes Clarkson a waste. For Clarkson on the 4th line to work, the Leafs need a different coach.

 

[barney_rebel]

We rule man!