Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock

[hockeyfan1]

In some way, the Leafs and Babcock?s coaching (decision-making re: season & playoffs) can be termed as predictable. 

Whereas the Bruins strategized, analyzed, (according to Boston?s Bergeron who mentioned about picking up the little things, the tendencies & ?weaknesses? of those you?re playing against), as the series wore on  especially in Games 6 & 7.  If anything, Boston made the changes that made the odds work in their favour, while the Leafs remained static (hence predictable).

It?s doubtful Dubas will fire Babs.  The assistant staff will most likely undergo change.  Hopefully, with a stronger & better support system in place ? some roster changes namely to strengthen the defence and add even more fluidity in the offensive category, next year, expectations will again rise but this time the Leafs should win a round and advance.

No one is saying the team needs to win the Cup so soon, but at least in defeating Boston this playoff year would have been seen as more of a confidence booster, and in getting that mental monkey off their backs, so to speak.  No one out there (media/hockey writers, etc.) chose the Leafs to come up winners but as we?ve all seen, this year?s NHL playoffs results have been nothing short of unexpected.  It would have been nice if Toronto could have been there too.

We?ll need to wait ?till next year. 

 

[herman]

This was a good read.
http://faceoffcircle.ca/2019/04/24/this-years-game-7-was-mike-babcocks-tipping-point/

It really felt like Babcock, at a certain point had decided that he?d rather risk losing his way than try winning a different way.

If he's willing to a) see that his current way needs an update and b) follow through with adapting, then I still think he can accomplish a lot with the Leafs. Like really good players coming up through junior who've never had to play defense before because no one could stop them, at some point, you hit a ceiling and you either wash out or adapt to thrive.

Why hasn't he already changed? Success is a bit of a blinder, yeah?

If I'm Dubas, when I sit down with the coaching staff, that's the exact conversation I'm having. You guys had a good regular season with reasonable improvement given the circumstances; the next level is going to require not-too significant adjustment.

We got killed on depth (an area of strength) because the other team was willing to use what it had regularly and explore those potential strengths. The team is strong enough in talent now that you can use the first half to build up your bench and give your vets additional recovery time (screw their pride). This is an easy fix.

We got killed on predictability (again). Players are smart and can handle more than two routes and breakout plays. Let your skill be creative. The horses are already in the stable, so this is an easy enough fix.

Balanced attack and ice time in the regular season is great to keep your workhorses fresh. In crunch time, accordion the bench and stack the percentages in your favour with your best players. Easy fix. you love to win, Babcock? Then play to win, not to not-lose.

 

[Zee]

Babcock by all accounts seemed rattled in the post game press conference. I wonder if his 100% confidence in his own ideas and ways has finally taken a much needed hit. If he's as progressive as some say he is then he should be open to listening to other people's opinions and maybe realize he has to change his ways. Cassidy ran circles around him in this series, if Babcock doesn't learn from this he's a lost cause.

 

[Guilt Trip]

This was a good read.
http://faceoffcircle.ca/2019/04/24/this-years-game-7-was-mike-babcocks-tipping-point/

It really felt like Babcock, at a certain point had decided that he?d rather risk losing his way than try winning a different way.

If he's willing to a) see that his current way needs an update and b) follow through with adapting, then I still think he can accomplish a lot with the Leafs. Like really good players coming up through junior who've never had to play defense before because no one could stop them, at some point, you hit a ceiling and you either wash out or adapt to thrive.

Why hasn't he already changed? Success is a bit of a blinder, yeah?

If I'm Dubas, when I sit down with the coaching staff, that's the exact conversation I'm having. You guys had a good regular season with reasonable improvement given the circumstances; the next level is going to require not-too significant adjustment.

We got killed on depth (an area of strength) because the other team was willing to use what it had regularly and explore those potential strengths. The team is strong enough in talent now that you can use the first half to build up your bench and give your vets additional recovery time (screw their pride). This is an easy fix.

We got killed on predictability (again). Players are smart and can handle more than two routes and breakout plays. Let your skill be creative. The horses are already in the stable, so this is an easy enough fix.

Balanced attack and ice time in the regular season is great to keep your workhorses fresh. In crunch time, accordion the bench and stack the percentages in your favour with your best players. Easy fix. you love to win, Babcock? Then play to win, not to not-lose.

Good article and agree with it all. I've bitched about Babs all year and his insistence of starting the 4th line after a goal. I never liked him doing that and in the end it cost us in game 6 when he started the 4th line after going up 1-0. There's lots of good things about Babs but there's lots of stuff I don't like to and most were mentioned in the article. He needs to change or he needs to go. I think the leash is going to be really short for him next year. What is Sheldon Keefe's contract status for next year?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

We got killed on depth (an area of strength) because the other team was willing to use what it had regularly and explore those potential strengths.

Is it though? Last year in game 7 against the Bruins our 4th line was JVR-Bozak-Kapanen. And we still had 3 legitimate NHLers in the pressbox in Komarov, Leivo, and Martin.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Babcock by all accounts seemed rattled in the post game press conference. I wonder if his 100% confidence in his own ideas and ways has finally taken a much needed hit. If he's as progressive as some say he is then he should be open to listening to other people's opinions and maybe realize he has to change his ways. Cassidy ran circles around him in this series, if Babcock doesn't learn from this he's a lost cause.

Even Brian Burke criticized him yesterday on Tim and Sid for some of his decisions. Cassidy outcoached him by a mile. His number 1 line struggles, he moves Pasta. Babs did nothing. He moved guys in and out of the line up, Babs did nothing. It was almost like Babs was just hoping the 3rd and 4th lines wouldn't get scored on and that would be success. Rosen should have been playing instead of Jake who could barely skate out there. Moore would have been an upgrade over Hyman who clearly wasn't getting it done on the forecheck anymore. The list goes on and on of all the obvious bad decisions he made. I really believe there will be some raised voices when Dubas, Shanny and Babs sit down.

 

[Zee]

Babcock by all accounts seemed rattled in the post game press conference. I wonder if his 100% confidence in his own ideas and ways has finally taken a much needed hit. If he's as progressive as some say he is then he should be open to listening to other people's opinions and maybe realize he has to change his ways. Cassidy ran circles around him in this series, if Babcock doesn't learn from this he's a lost cause.

Even Brian Burke criticized him yesterday on Tim and Sid for some of his decisions. Cassidy outcoached him by a mile. His number 1 line struggles, he moves Pasta. Babs did nothing. He moved guys in and out of the line up, Babs did nothing. It was almost like Babs was just hoping the 3rd and 4th lines wouldn't get scored on and that would be success. Rosen should have been playing instead of Jake who could barely skate out there. Moore would have been an upgrade over Hyman who clearly wasn't getting it done on the forecheck anymore. The list goes on and on of all the obvious bad decisions he made. I really believe there will be some raised voices when Dubas, Shanny and Babs sit down.

Cassidy seemed like the desperate coach trying everything to win, as if his job was on the line and he'd never won a round before. All those changes he did game in game out like you mentioned, and Babcock basically stuck to the same formula he followed all season.  It was just such a stark contrast in coaching philosophy

 

[Guilt Trip]

We got killed on depth (an area of strength) because the other team was willing to use what it had regularly and explore those potential strengths.

Is it though? Last year in game 7 against the Bruins our 4th line was JVR-Bozak-Kapanen. And we still had 3 legitimate NHLers in the pressbox in Komarov, Leivo, and Martin.

Hard to say really. I think we might have had more depth but our top lines were much stronger this year. There really isn't a top line on that team looking back. Even with JT we were lacking depth at centre because of the Kadri suspension this year. Kadri in moves Willy to the wing and Brown down to the 4th line which in itself is a minus because Ennis and Moore both played better then him. Definitely need an upgrade at the 4th centre spot.
                     
Hyman Matthews Brown vs  Johnsson Matthews Kappy
Marleau Kadri Marner  vs    Hyman Tavares Marner
Johnsson Plekanec Nylander  vs  Marleau Nylander Brown   
JVR Bozak Kappy  vs  Ennis Goat Moore               

 

[Guilt Trip]

Babcock by all accounts seemed rattled in the post game press conference. I wonder if his 100% confidence in his own ideas and ways has finally taken a much needed hit. If he's as progressive as some say he is then he should be open to listening to other people's opinions and maybe realize he has to change his ways. Cassidy ran circles around him in this series, if Babcock doesn't learn from this he's a lost cause.

Even Brian Burke criticized him yesterday on Tim and Sid for some of his decisions. Cassidy outcoached him by a mile. His number 1 line struggles, he moves Pasta. Babs did nothing. He moved guys in and out of the line up, Babs did nothing. It was almost like Babs was just hoping the 3rd and 4th lines wouldn't get scored on and that would be success. Rosen should have been playing instead of Jake who could barely skate out there. Moore would have been an upgrade over Hyman who clearly wasn't getting it done on the forecheck anymore. The list goes on and on of all the obvious bad decisions he made. I really believe there will be some raised voices when Dubas, Shanny and Babs sit down.

Cassidy seemed like the desperate coach trying everything to win, as if his job was on the line and he'd never won a round before. All those changes he did game in game out like you mentioned, and Babcock basically stuck to the same formula he followed all season.  It was just such a stark contrast in coaching philosophy

For sure. Cassidy recognized things weren't working and changed them up fast. He didn't wait. It was like Babs was just hoping the talent would win it and it almost did. This loss could end up being a blessing for the team to move forward especially in coaching philosophy. Team needs better PK and PP. I read that the Bruins were shocked that our PP didn't play more. Funny, even they saw it.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Hard to say really. I think we might have had more depth but our top lines were much stronger this year. There really isn't a top line on that team looking back. Even with JT we were lacking depth at centre because of the Kadri suspension this year. Kadri in moves Willy to the wing and Brown down to the 4th line which in itself is a minus because Ennis and Moore both played better then him. Definitely need an upgrade at the 4th centre spot.

Discussing our depth is definitely is a tricky subject because you wouldn't think it'd be an issue for a team with 6 20-goal scorers at forward (and that's not including Nylander who will usually hit that mark). But moving Willy to C just destroyed our wing depth. 5 of our bottom-6 forwards were essentially 4th line calibre players (and that's being generous for Gauthier). I know that you and others wish Babcock changed things around and yeah I wish he did too just to see what would happen, but at the end of the day swapping Marleau/Brown for Moore/Ennis is just like moving chairs on the Titanic to me. Forward depth was a real issue.

edit: I should clarify that it was an issue because Marleau and Brown played down to what was expected from them particularly down the stretch and in the playoffs. 

 

[Zee]

Holy hell what a contrast in press conferences today. Babcock never once took blame for anything that happened. He always has some other reason for why things went wrong. Dubas said multiple times "blame me for that". Dubas was taking responsibility for Nylander's not greatest season, the PK being horrendous in the playoffs, so ridiculous.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Holy hell what a contrast in press conferences today. Babcock never once took blame for anything that happened. He always has some other reason for why things went wrong. Dubas said multiple times "blame me for that". Dubas was taking responsibility for Nylander's not greatest season, the PK being horrendous in the playoffs, so ridiculous.

Babs doesn't take ownership on anything. The shots went in...next year we'll be bigger....blah blah. Dubas is a stand up guy.

 

[Bender]

Holy hell what a contrast in press conferences today. Babcock never once took blame for anything that happened. He always has some other reason for why things went wrong. Dubas said multiple times "blame me for that". Dubas was taking responsibility for Nylander's not greatest season, the PK being horrendous in the playoffs, so ridiculous.

Dubas taking responsibility for all that is kind of ridiculous. He's not playing, he's not drawing up the plays. He gets personnel and I don't think personnel really was the main glaring problem in this series.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Holy hell what a contrast in press conferences today. Babcock never once took blame for anything that happened. He always has some other reason for why things went wrong. Dubas said multiple times "blame me for that". Dubas was taking responsibility for Nylander's not greatest season, the PK being horrendous in the playoffs, so ridiculous.

Dubas taking responsibility for all that is kind of ridiculous. He's not playing, he's not drawing up the plays. He gets personnel and I don't think personnel really was the main glaring problem in this series.

It just shows he's a stand up guy, unlike our coach who deflects.

 

[Zee]

Holy hell what a contrast in press conferences today. Babcock never once took blame for anything that happened. He always has some other reason for why things went wrong. Dubas said multiple times "blame me for that". Dubas was taking responsibility for Nylander's not greatest season, the PK being horrendous in the playoffs, so ridiculous.

Babs doesn't take ownership on anything. The shots went in...next year we'll be bigger....blah blah. Dubas is a stand up guy.

Stand up guy or not it was a bit over the top. I've never once heard a gm take blame for an underperforming penalty kill, that's 100% on coaching, it just sounded like he was trying too hard to take bullets for everything.

It was interesting when asked if Babcock was back as coach that he said "Shanahan has to evaluate me first before I can make those types of evaluations"

 

[Guilt Trip]

Holy hell what a contrast in press conferences today. Babcock never once took blame for anything that happened. He always has some other reason for why things went wrong. Dubas said multiple times "blame me for that". Dubas was taking responsibility for Nylander's not greatest season, the PK being horrendous in the playoffs, so ridiculous.

Babs doesn't take ownership on anything. The shots went in...next year we'll be bigger....blah blah. Dubas is a stand up guy.

Stand up guy or not it was a bit over the top. I've never once heard a gm take blame for an underperforming penalty kill, that's 100% on coaching, it just sounded like he was trying too hard to take bullets for everything.

It was interesting when asked if Babcock was back as coach that he said "Shanahan has to evaluate me first before I can make those types of evaluations"

Dubas is a smart guy and I love that response. If I was basing things off the playoffs and the way both he and Dubas answered to the media, I'd fire Babs. He's not going to change. Even the players apologized. Fact is everyone did but Babs. I also found Matthews response interesting when asked about ice time. He looked pissed off to me and just said I don't deploy the players. That's the coaches job.

 

[Highlander]

Holy hell what a contrast in press conferences today. Babcock never once took blame for anything that happened. He always has some other reason for why things went wrong. Dubas said multiple times "blame me for that". Dubas was taking responsibility for Nylander's not greatest season, the PK being horrendous in the playoffs, so ridiculous.

Babs doesn't take ownership on anything. The shots went in...next year we'll be bigger....blah blah. Dubas is a stand up guy.

Stand up guy or not it was a bit over the top. I've never once heard a gm take blame for an underperforming penalty kill, that's 100% on coaching, it just sounded like he was trying too hard to take bullets for everything.

It was interesting when asked if Babcock was back as coach that he said "Shanahan has to evaluate me first before I can make those types of evaluations"

Dubas is a smart guy and I love that response. If I was basing things off the playoffs and the way both he and Dubas answered to the media, I'd fire Babs. He's not going to change. Even the players apologized. Fact is everyone did but Babs. I also found Matthews response interesting when asked about ice time. He looked pissed off to me and just said I don't deploy the players. That's the coaches job.

I'd like to be pissed off making what he makes playing the game he loves and never having to worry about money again. I understand his competitive nature but while Babs is the coach he makes the calls.
If the don't make it past round 1 next year, then Babs will go. I would sh_t a brick if Babs was fired now. Yes I would like to see Keefe at some point but we have to let it ride with a new look D. 

 

[Guilt Trip]

I'd like to have his money too! That's what he did say tho. Coaches deploy the players and determine ice time.
Cherry on coaches corner even got in on the Babs opinion. He talked about how he should leave the guys on the whole PP. Says when they know they're coming off in 50 seconds they are forced to try and make stuff happen instead of taking their time. I can't argue with that logic. I was watching a bit of the Caps game last night. The first PP unit for them was on 1:30 before they changed and OV stayed on after that. Babs needs to do 5ge same with ours.
I also won't be upset if they can Babs. He was bad enough last year putting Brown and Hyman with Matthews but this year he took it to a new level.

 

[Zee]

Holy hell what a contrast in press conferences today. Babcock never once took blame for anything that happened. He always has some other reason for why things went wrong. Dubas said multiple times "blame me for that". Dubas was taking responsibility for Nylander's not greatest season, the PK being horrendous in the playoffs, so ridiculous.

Babs doesn't take ownership on anything. The shots went in...next year we'll be bigger....blah blah. Dubas is a stand up guy.

Stand up guy or not it was a bit over the top. I've never once heard a gm take blame for an underperforming penalty kill, that's 100% on coaching, it just sounded like he was trying too hard to take bullets for everything.

It was interesting when asked if Babcock was back as coach that he said "Shanahan has to evaluate me first before I can make those types of evaluations"

Dubas is a smart guy and I love that response. If I was basing things off the playoffs and the way both he and Dubas answered to the media, I'd fire Babs. He's not going to change. Even the players apologized. Fact is everyone did but Babs. I also found Matthews response interesting when asked about ice time. He looked pissed off to me and just said I don't deploy the players. That's the coaches job.

I'd like to be pissed off making what he makes playing the game he loves and never having to worry about money again. I understand his competitive nature but while Babs is the coach he makes the calls.
If the don't make it past round 1 next year, then Babs will go. I would sh_t a brick if Babs was fired now. Yes I would like to see Keefe at some point but we have to let it ride with a new look D.

Based on Babcock's answers today what faith have you that he would do anything differently next season? His answer to everything is "we need better players". Sorry Babs but you're not assembling a team Canada worthy roster with the salary cap, it's time to actually coach the roster you have and get the most out of it. That means playing your best players more and in situations where it's warranted.

 

[herman]

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2019/04/25/kyle-dubas-i-thought-our-coaching-staff-did-a-good-job-this-year-with-our-group/

Yeah Dubas is a good pro.