Pre-Season: Sabres @ Leafs - Sept. 22, 7:00pm - LeafsTV, TSN 1050

[lamajama]

Stupidity all around but were the officials that clueless at what was brewing?

 

[OldTimeHockey]

It blows my mind that people here would suggest that a player like Devane trying to make a career under a coach like Carlyle, who really likes tough hockey, should turn down an offer to fight because he is tougher than challenger???  WTF are you guys thinking??  The kid would never see the ice again under this coach.  He did exactly what he should have done in this situation.

Or, you know, that just highlights the larger issue many of us have with Randy Carlyle as the coach of this team. What happened tonight with Devane and everything his decision ended up leading to is really just a symptom of Carlyle's poor philosophy when it comes to putting together an NHL roster.

+1000

Randy Carlyle's coaching record:

Games: 582
Wins: 305
Winning Percentage: .583

I suppose you can say you don't agree with his approach, or that you believe emphasizing toughness over skill wrong, but saying he has a "poor philisophy" undermines the success he's had coaching in the NHL.

Bingo.

It's funny how a coach with a winning record is seen as some idiot who can't put a NHL roster together. People need to give their heads a shake.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

It blows my mind that people here would suggest that a player like Devane trying to make a career under a coach like Carlyle, who really likes tough hockey, should turn down an offer to fight because he is tougher than challenger???  WTF are you guys thinking??  The kid would never see the ice again under this coach.  He did exactly what he should have done in this situation.

Or, you know, that just highlights the larger issue many of us have with Randy Carlyle as the coach of this team. What happened tonight with Devane and everything his decision ended up leading to is really just a symptom of Carlyle's poor philosophy when it comes to putting together an NHL roster.

+1000

Randy Carlyle's coaching record:

Games: 582
Wins: 305
Winning Percentage: .583

I suppose you can say you don't agree with his approach, or that you believe emphasizing toughness over skill wrong, but saying he has a "poor philisophy" undermines the success he's had coaching in the NHL.

Bingo.

It's funny how a coach with a winning record is seen as some idiot who can't put a NHL roster together. People need to give their heads a shake.

Is anyone saying that?  As far as I can tell, the criticism of his roster decision stems from the belief that he is putting out a roster that is less-skilled for the sake of having players whose sole purpose is as enforcers.  Perhaps his career record is worse than it could potentially have been with the players his past and current GM's have provided him with.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Is anyone saying that?  As far as I can tell, the criticism of his roster decision stems from the belief that he is putting out a roster that is less-skilled for the sake of having players whose sole purpose is as enforcers.  Perhaps his career record is worse than it could potentially have been with the players his past and current GM's have provided him with.

Seriously. And you know, who even cares what his coaching record was with Anaheim? We're supposed to have short memories when it comes to players like Grabovski but we can't forget that Carlyle had a 0.671 winning percentage 7 years ago?

Obviously, his record with the Leafs is pretty good too, but all he's done is put up half of a winning season with us. If he continues that, great. If not, well then that half of a winning season will deserve all the criticism it gets. But anything that he's done prior to that is moot here really.

 

[Champ Kind]

Is anyone saying that?  As far as I can tell, the criticism of his roster decision stems from the belief that he is putting out a roster that is less-skilled for the sake of having players whose sole purpose is as enforcers.  Perhaps his career record is worse than it could potentially have been with the players his past and current GM's have provided him with.

Seriously. And you know, who even cares what his coaching record was with Anaheim? We're supposed to have short memories when it comes to players like Grabovski but we can't forget that Carlyle had a 0.671 winning percentage 7 years ago?

Obviously, his record with the Leafs is pretty good too, but all he's done is put up half of a winning season with us. If he continues that, great. If not, well then that half of a winning season will deserve all the criticism it gets. But anything that he's done prior to that is moot here really.

Well, no, that's not right, is it?  I mean, continued success counts for something, right?  Wasn't the argument against giving Kadri the big contrcat  that he hadn't "proven" anything yet?

All I'm saying is that we can discuss the merits of fielding a roster than emphasizes toughness over skill.  But, saying Carlyle has a poor philosophy at filling out a lineup, to me, implies his approach is unsuccessfuly.  I'm saying that this is not the case, unless we're measuring a team's success by the style of play.  But you can't say Carlyle does not know how to generate wins.

 

[Kin]

It's funny how a coach with a winning record is seen as some idiot who can't put a NHL roster together. People need to give their heads a shake.

People also need to remember what is and isn't in a coach's job description and "putting a roster together" tends to not be.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

It's funny how a coach with a winning record is seen as some idiot who can't put a NHL roster together. People need to give their heads a shake.

People also need to remember what is and isn't in a coach's job description and "putting a roster together" tends to not be.

Sounds like he has quite a bit of control over it.

That won't happen for certain until all the exhibition games are over, according to general manager Dave Nonis, who plans on letting coach Randy Carlyle make the final calls.

"From his standpoint, he'll ask our opinion. But he's picking the team," Nonis said Saturday night in Buffalo. "I can't tell him to put someone in the lineup that he doesn't want in the lineup. It doesn't really work. He has full control over who makes this team and who doesn't."

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=683658

 

[Kin]

Sounds like he has quite a bit of control over it.

I am absolutely sure that he has the final say on Trevor Smith vs. Fraser McLaren. To the extent that constitutes a lot of control over the roster I'm not sure.

 

[bustaheims]

Sounds like he has quite a bit of control over it.

That won't happen for certain until all the exhibition games are over, according to general manager Dave Nonis, who plans on letting coach Randy Carlyle make the final calls.

"From his standpoint, he'll ask our opinion. But he's picking the team," Nonis said Saturday night in Buffalo. "I can't tell him to put someone in the lineup that he doesn't want in the lineup. It doesn't really work. He has full control over who makes this team and who doesn't."

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=683658

And, with that in mind, you have to believe he had a significant influence on who Nonis and Co. have added to the roster and on who they may look to add in the future.

 

[Peter D.]

If Carlyle has autonomy, I'm trying to figure out where he stands on Rielly. 

Rielly's situation is likely to be the most contentious one, and my belief is that Nonis will want some say in the matter.

 

[bustaheims]

If Carlyle has autonomy, I'm trying to figure out where he stands on Rielly. 

Rielly's situation is likely to be the most contentious one, and my belief is that Nonis will want some say in the matter.

Clarkson's actions last night may have actually sealed Rielly fate. With things as they are right now, the team might not be able to afford to give up a roster spot for Rielly, as they might need to carry an extra body or two up front than they initially expected to.

 

[ZBBM]

Sounds like he has quite a bit of control over it.

That won't happen for certain until all the exhibition games are over, according to general manager Dave Nonis, who plans on letting coach Randy Carlyle make the final calls.

"From his standpoint, he'll ask our opinion. But he's picking the team," Nonis said Saturday night in Buffalo. "I can't tell him to put someone in the lineup that he doesn't want in the lineup. It doesn't really work. He has full control over who makes this team and who doesn't."

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=683658

And, with that in mind, you have to believe he had a significant influence on who Nonis and Co. have added to the roster and on who they may look to add in the future.

Too much, IMO.  Hence Grabovski. 

 

[CarltonTheBear]

If Carlyle has autonomy, I'm trying to figure out where he stands on Rielly. 

Rielly's situation is likely to be the most contentious one, and my belief is that Nonis will want some say in the matter.

Clarkson's actions last night may have actually sealed Rielly fate. With things as they are right now, the team might not be able to afford to give up a roster spot for Rielly, as they might need to carry an extra body or two up front than they initially expected to.

As long as Franson signs, they have room though don't they?

The Leafs could start the season with a 23-man roster and still have just over $900k in cap space if Colborne, Bodie, and Rielly take up the extra spots (assuming Raymond signs for $925k).

Things will get tight if Bolland, Orr, and McLaren aren't ready to start the season but that would be the case regardless of who the 7th defenceman is.

 

[ZBBM]

Scott blaming Carlyle:

"I'd be pissed off if someone went after my star guy too. It's one of those things their coach didn't have to put Kessel out with me."

Sure, pal, once Kessel came over the boards you HAD to jump him because ... because ... because you are a moronic goon.

 

[Kin]

Too much, IMO.  Hence Grabovski.

That strikes me as an essentially circular argument. If Carlyle's position dictates whether or not Grabo is on the team than the responsibility is still ultimately Nonis' for being the one who decides who the coach is.

 

[bustaheims]

As long as Franson signs, they have room though don't they?

The Leafs could start the season with a 23-man roster and still have just over $900k in cap space if Colborne, Bodie, and Rielly take up the extra spots (assuming Raymond signs for $925k).

Things will get tight if Bolland, Orr, and McLaren aren't ready to start the season but that would be the case regardless of who the 7th defenceman is.

I assume you mean as long as Franson does not sign, because, if he does, until a trade is made, they definitely do not have the space. Without Franson, they can make it work, but, it's hardly ideal and, my guess is it's not a situation the team would really consider. With the cap issues and the short-term injuries, it wouldn't surprise me if the Leafs carry the bare minimum in terms of healthy, non-suspended players so they can bank a little cap space.

 

[pnjunction]

As the days march on it's harder to imagine anything other than Franson being dealt.  I know I've been saying that since July but it's still true.  My non-educated guess is that Nonis is just trying to max out the price.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

As the days march on it's harder to imagine anything other than Franson being dealt.  I know I've been saying that since July but it's still true.  My non-educated guess is that Nonis is just trying to max out the price.

Don't worry, we still have Mark Fraser.

 

[Champ Kind]

As the days march on it's harder to imagine anything other than Franson being dealt.  I know I've been saying that since July but it's still true.  My non-educated guess is that Nonis is just trying to max out the price.

Don't worry, we still have Mark Fraser.

Oh, you.

 

[Champ Kind]

Sounds like he has quite a bit of control over it.

That won't happen for certain until all the exhibition games are over, according to general manager Dave Nonis, who plans on letting coach Randy Carlyle make the final calls.

"From his standpoint, he'll ask our opinion. But he's picking the team," Nonis said Saturday night in Buffalo. "I can't tell him to put someone in the lineup that he doesn't want in the lineup. It doesn't really work. He has full control over who makes this team and who doesn't."

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=683658

And, with that in mind, you have to believe he had a significant influence on who Nonis and Co. have added to the roster and on who they may look to add in the future.

Too much, IMO.  Hence Grabovski.

I disagree, Buck. 

In a third line roll, Bolland > Grabovski. 

On the second line, Kadri > Grabovski.

On the first, Bozak...um...

Touche, Mr. Buck-Buck, touche.