Randy Carlyle/Leaf Coach thread

[Redleaf]

And what if we fire Carlyle, and the next coach fails to get the team in the playoffs?  What then?  I wouldn't place all your hopes in a coaching change.

You do realize that a lot of people are less concerned with the results than they are with the performance. If the team plays better next season and still misses the playoffs, I'll be quite content with the coaching change.

I wouldn't be content with that scenario at all, unless they miss the playoffs by a long shot so we could draft in the top 5. At which point, the coach would have really let us down, at least I would think.

 

[ZBBM]

I can't accept any justification for keeping him.  The Knicks just fired their coach after "a hugely disappointing season where they missed the playoffs."  It would be one thing if RC were a legend that had steered the Leafs to multiple Cups; then you forgive a season like this last one.  But this is run-of-the-mill failure and in today's sports almost always costs the coach his job.  I realize Shanahan needs to look like he's evaluating the whole program (and maybe he's also contemplating axing Nonis), but with respect to Carlyle this is a no-brainer.

 

[bustaheims]

I wouldn't be content with that scenario at all, unless they miss the playoffs by a long shot so we could draft in the top 5. At which point, the coach would have really let us down, at least I would think.

Of course not, since you're very result orientated. I'd say, if the team plays better next season and still misses the playoffs, the coach wouldn't have let the team down at all. At that point, the emphasis would fall much more heavily on the level of talent on the roster.

 

[bustaheims]

I can't accept any justification for keeping him.  The Knicks just fired their coach after "a hugely disappointing season where they missed the playoffs."  It would be one thing if RC were a legend that had steered the Leafs to multiple Cups; then you forgive a season like this last one.  But this is run-of-the-mill failure and in today's sports almost always costs the coach his job.  I realize Shanahan needs to look like he's evaluating the whole program (and maybe he's also contemplating axing Nonis), but with respect to Carlyle this is a no-brainer.

Honestly, I think the only reason he hasn't been let go yet is that Shanahan has enough respect for the league to not do it while the playoffs are in full swing. They might also be waiting to be able to announce a replacement at the same time. I fully expect it to be announced when there's a lull between rounds, regardless of whether they have a replacement, though.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I wouldn't be content with that scenario at all, unless they miss the playoffs by a long shot so we could draft in the top 5. At which point, the coach would have really let us down, at least I would think.

Didn't you just say that you'd rather miss the playoffs than get your butt kicked in the 1st round like Tampa is right now?

 

[Corn Flake]

I can't accept any justification for keeping him.  The Knicks just fired their coach after "a hugely disappointing season where they missed the playoffs."  It would be one thing if RC were a legend that had steered the Leafs to multiple Cups; then you forgive a season like this last one.  But this is run-of-the-mill failure and in today's sports almost always costs the coach his job.  I realize Shanahan needs to look like he's evaluating the whole program (and maybe he's also contemplating axing Nonis), but with respect to Carlyle this is a no-brainer.

Honestly, I think the only reason he hasn't been let go yet is that Shanahan has enough respect for the league to not do it while the playoffs are in full swing. They might also be waiting to be able to announce a replacement at the same time. I fully expect it to be announced when there's a lull between rounds, regardless of whether they have a replacement, though.

This, plus I think Shanny is the type to let the "full evaluation of the org" complete before making any big decisions on firing anyone.  Have to give him at least 2 full weeks for that to be done. 

I'm sure he wants to pick Randy's brain a bit on what really happened and what his opinions are in terms of holes in the roster.  He's probably meeting with all the assistants too.

 

[Redleaf]

I wouldn't be content with that scenario at all, unless they miss the playoffs by a long shot so we could draft in the top 5. At which point, the coach would have really let us down, at least I would think.

Didn't you just say that you'd rather miss the playoffs than get your butt kicked in the 1st round like Tampa is right now?

I'm not sure I follow?

 

[ZBBM]

I can't accept any justification for keeping him.  The Knicks just fired their coach after "a hugely disappointing season where they missed the playoffs."  It would be one thing if RC were a legend that had steered the Leafs to multiple Cups; then you forgive a season like this last one.  But this is run-of-the-mill failure and in today's sports almost always costs the coach his job.  I realize Shanahan needs to look like he's evaluating the whole program (and maybe he's also contemplating axing Nonis), but with respect to Carlyle this is a no-brainer.

Honestly, I think the only reason he hasn't been let go yet is that Shanahan has enough respect for the league to not do it while the playoffs are in full swing. They might also be waiting to be able to announce a replacement at the same time. I fully expect it to be announced when there's a lull between rounds, regardless of whether they have a replacement, though.

I agree.  They certainly can't wait until after the playoffs, so I think it will come down sometime in the next 7-10 days.

 

[Redleaf]

I can't accept any justification for keeping him.  The Knicks just fired their coach after "a hugely disappointing season where they missed the playoffs."  It would be one thing if RC were a legend that had steered the Leafs to multiple Cups; then you forgive a season like this last one.  But this is run-of-the-mill failure and in today's sports almost always costs the coach his job.  I realize Shanahan needs to look like he's evaluating the whole program (and maybe he's also contemplating axing Nonis), but with respect to Carlyle this is a no-brainer.

Honestly, I think the only reason he hasn't been let go yet is that Shanahan has enough respect for the league to not do it while the playoffs are in full swing. They might also be waiting to be able to announce a replacement at the same time. I fully expect it to be announced when there's a lull between rounds, regardless of whether they have a replacement, though.

I agree.  They certainly can't wait until after the playoffs, so I think it will come down sometime in the next 7-10 days.

That sounds about right to me, if he's being fired.

 

[93forever]

Why bash the goalies when Carlyle basically bashed Reimer in public?

That's dwelling on a comical level of exaggeration.

A comical level of exaggeration would be calling Carlyle a most awesome NHL coach.

Yeah, but no one called him that. I'm rooting for him to stay at this point, if not just to bait the hysterics.

If Carlyle stays Rogers should broadcast Leaf games on the Comedy Channel.  What the team needs is a Patrick Roy type coach.

Colorado was one of the bottom teams in the league according to advanced stats like corsi and fenwick.  Just a bit better than the Leafs.

http://www.extraskater.com/teams/on-ice?season=2013

The Av's are only up 2-0, Roy has the players backs and the players want to play their heart out for Roy.  Both believe in the other and are supporting each other not only in public but on ice as well.

 

[bustaheims]

Colorado was one of the bottom teams in the league according to advanced stats like corsi and fenwick.  Just a bit better than the Leafs.

http://www.extraskater.com/teams/on-ice?season=2013

The difference in the rankings may not be significant, but, the greater than 5% difference between the two teams is. That being said, unless Colorado improves their puck possession, it's unlikely they'll repeat their success next season. I wouldn't want Roy specifically or necessarily even a similar guy tactically, but, a guy with the perceived relationship he has with his players, absolutely.

 

[93forever]

Why bash the goalies when Carlyle basically bashed Reimer in public?

That's dwelling on a comical level of exaggeration.

A comical level of exaggeration would be calling Carlyle a most awesome NHL coach.

Yeah, but no one called him that. I'm rooting for him to stay at this point, if not just to bait the hysterics.

If Carlyle stays Rogers should broadcast Leaf games on the Comedy Channel.  What the team needs is a Patrick Roy type coach.

Colorado was one of the bottom teams in the league according to advanced stats like corsi and fenwick.  Just a bit better than the Leafs.

http://www.extraskater.com/teams/on-ice?season=2013

And what if we fire Carlyle, and the next coach fails to get the team in the playoffs?  What then?  I wouldn't place all your hopes in a coaching change.

I wouldn't place all your hopes in sticking with Carlyle.  What has he done to warrant any continuation as Leafs coach?

 

[Zee]

Colorado was one of the bottom teams in the league according to advanced stats like corsi and fenwick.  Just a bit better than the Leafs.

http://www.extraskater.com/teams/on-ice?season=2013

The difference in the rankings may not be significant, but, the greater than 5% difference between the two teams is. That being said, unless Colorado improves their puck possession, it's unlikely they'll repeat their success next season. I wouldn't want Roy specifically or necessarily even a similar guy tactically, but, a guy with the perceived relationship he has with his players, absolutely.

Sure the percentage was better than the Leafs but they're still one of the worst teams in the league according to the stats. They shouldn't have made the playoffs but I guess they were an anomaly like the Leafs in the short season.

 

[bustaheims]

Sure the percentage was better than the Leafs but they're still one of the worst teams in the league according to the stats. They shouldn't have made the playoffs but I guess they were an anomaly like the Leafs in the short season.

They probably are an anomaly, but, really in terms of the actual numbers, they're closer the teams in top 8-10 than they are to the Leafs. They had some of the lower numbers, but, their numbers weren't exceptionally low.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Sure the percentage was better than the Leafs but they're still one of the worst teams in the league according to the stats. They shouldn't have made the playoffs but I guess they were an anomaly like the Leafs in the short season.

They probably are an anomaly, but, really in terms of the actual numbers, they're closer the teams in top 8-10 than they are to the Leafs. They had some of the lower numbers, but, their numbers weren't exceptionally low.

And received great goaltending and shot 10% on the season.  Don't feel like linking to it for the millionth time, but I don't think a single team has repeated a double digit SH% from one full season to the next.  Their SH% is ~2% higher than last season and ~3% higher than the season before that.  Expect that to be closer to 8% next season.  Last season the Leafs shot 11.5% in a short season, it was 9.8% in 11-12, and 9.7% this past season.

It always amazes me to go back and look at things like SH% and how they really do fluctuate so much - just on the basis of the expected regression in the Leafs SH% you could have made a good argument for them to fall back this season.

 

[bustaheims]

And received great goaltending and shot 10% on the season.  Don't feel like linking to it for the millionth time, but I don't think a single team has repeated a double digit SH% from one full season to the next.  Their SH% is ~2% higher than last season and ~3% higher than the season before that.  Expect that to be closer to 8% next season.  Last season the Leafs shot 11.5% in a short season, it was 9.8% in 11-12, and 9.7% this past season.

It always amazes me to go back and look at things like SH% and how they really do fluctuate so much - just on the basis of the expected regression in the Leafs SH% you could have made a good argument for them to fall back this season.

Yeah. I'm not saying they're good. I'm just saying that saying they're "just a bit better than" the Leafs is pretty disingenuous. They're much closer to being in a reasonable position than the Leafs. They're a below average possession team, whereas the Leafs were a terrible possession team this season.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

And received great goaltending and shot 10% on the season.  Don't feel like linking to it for the millionth time, but I don't think a single team has repeated a double digit SH% from one full season to the next.  Their SH% is ~2% higher than last season and ~3% higher than the season before that.  Expect that to be closer to 8% next season.  Last season the Leafs shot 11.5% in a short season, it was 9.8% in 11-12, and 9.7% this past season.

It always amazes me to go back and look at things like SH% and how they really do fluctuate so much - just on the basis of the expected regression in the Leafs SH% you could have made a good argument for them to fall back this season.

Yeah. I'm not saying they're good. I'm just saying that saying they're "just a bit better than" the Leafs is pretty disingenuous. They're much closer to being in a reasonable position than the Leafs. They're a below average possession team, whereas the Leafs were a terrible possession team this season.

Oh yeah - for the record, wasn't disagreeing with you. 

 

[Tigger]

I can't accept any justification for keeping him.  The Knicks just fired their coach after "a hugely disappointing season where they missed the playoffs."  It would be one thing if RC were a legend that had steered the Leafs to multiple Cups; then you forgive a season like this last one.  But this is run-of-the-mill failure and in today's sports almost always costs the coach his job.  I realize Shanahan needs to look like he's evaluating the whole program (and maybe he's also contemplating axing Nonis), but with respect to Carlyle this is a no-brainer.

I suppose it depends on how you define 'hugely'. Putting any weight into 'forgiving' a season like the last one seems really off to me. The Leafs finished a little under expectation, nothing Earth shattering.

 

[L K]

I can't accept any justification for keeping him.  The Knicks just fired their coach after "a hugely disappointing season where they missed the playoffs."  It would be one thing if RC were a legend that had steered the Leafs to multiple Cups; then you forgive a season like this last one.  But this is run-of-the-mill failure and in today's sports almost always costs the coach his job.  I realize Shanahan needs to look like he's evaluating the whole program (and maybe he's also contemplating axing Nonis), but with respect to Carlyle this is a no-brainer.

I think Woodson was gone regardless, but he pretty much forced the organizations hand at firing him with his antics down the stretch and after the end of the year.  I mean when you essentially say "talk to my agent, I won't talk with you unless I'm guaranteed a job next year", what do you expect to have happen?

Writes Begley: ?Earlier Friday on ?SportsCenter,? ESPN?s Stephen A. Smith said Woodson would prefer that Jackson reach out to his agent if he?s going to fire him rather than having a face-to-face meeting to inform him that he?s being let go.?

 

[ZBBM]

I can't accept any justification for keeping him.  The Knicks just fired their coach after "a hugely disappointing season where they missed the playoffs."  It would be one thing if RC were a legend that had steered the Leafs to multiple Cups; then you forgive a season like this last one.  But this is run-of-the-mill failure and in today's sports almost always costs the coach his job.  I realize Shanahan needs to look like he's evaluating the whole program (and maybe he's also contemplating axing Nonis), but with respect to Carlyle this is a no-brainer.

I suppose it depends on how you define 'hugely'. Putting any weight into 'forgiving' a season like the last one seems really off to me. The Leafs finished a little under expectation, nothing Earth shattering.

Going from 9 points up on teams chasing you to out of the playoffs in 3 weeks or whatever it was was hugely huge.  Maybe even HIGHLY HUGELY HUGE, as in straight from All-Capistan Huge.