Randy Carlyle/Leaf Coach thread

[L K]

In the month of December Holland was tied for 3rd on the team in points and tied for 2nd on the team in goals. And during the month he averaged 13:18 of ice-time per game, which was less than everybody except the 4th liners (D'Amigo/Orr/Bodie/McLaren/Ashton/Smithson). Oh and he pretty much got 0 powerplay time too.

And in the 3 games since Bozak's return he is getting the 2nd least amount of ice-time on the team averaging 7:05/game.

 

[bustaheims]

"It's not my job to get you guys going..."

The more he said that, the more it annoyed me, because it is absolutely part of the coach's job to help his players find the motivation they need. It's not all on him, but, it is still something he has some responsibility for.

 

[Stickytape]

I've been catching up on the 24/7 episodes, and man, Carlyle's coaching style is pretty disappointing up close, too.  It's low on detail, and high on shouting platitudes.  He doesn't seem to know how to encourage, only how to threaten.  Maybe I'm biased because I don't respond well to that style of command, but it left me pretty cold.  I'd rather play for a guy like Babcock.

Carlyle came across as a bit uncomfortable on camera, though, so it's hard to say if that's what he's really like.  When he wasn't pissed off he was quiet, laughed nervously, or made weak jokes that mostly fell flat on the floor.  I cringed a lot on his behalf.

It's mostly too hard to say from that alone, since it's edited and presented how HBO wants it so things can be out of context or they can present only a fraction of what goes on.

In the "Should Lupul be Captain?" thread you told me to go watch Phaneuf's leadership style by watching the 24/7 episodes.  Now, in this thread, the 24/7 episodes aren't a very good indicator of Carlyle's coaching style because they're edited by HBO.  Which is it?  You can't have it both ways.

At any rate, I know it's just a TV show, not an in-depth documentary of Carlyle's coaching style.  Obviously.  I'm just commenting on what I saw: in the show, Carlyle doesn't come across to me as a very competent coach.  Take what you will from that.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I've been catching up on the 24/7 episodes, and man, Carlyle's coaching style is pretty disappointing up close, too.  It's low on detail, and high on shouting platitudes.  He doesn't seem to know how to encourage, only how to threaten.  Maybe I'm biased because I don't respond well to that style of command, but it left me pretty cold.  I'd rather play for a guy like Babcock.

Carlyle came across as a bit uncomfortable on camera, though, so it's hard to say if that's what he's really like.  When he wasn't pissed off he was quiet, laughed nervously, or made weak jokes that mostly fell flat on the floor.  I cringed a lot on his behalf.

It's mostly too hard to say from that alone, since it's edited and presented how HBO wants it so things can be out of context or they can present only a fraction of what goes on.

In the "Should Lupul be Captain?" thread you told me to go watch Phaneuf's leadership style by watching the 24/7 episodes.  Now, in this thread, the 24/7 episodes aren't a very good indicator of Carlyle's coaching style because they're edited by HBO.  Which is it?  You can't have it both ways.

Don't misrepresent what I said.

I never said go watch his leadership style from 24/7.  You made a comment that you don't see Phaneuf talking to the players.  I said to watch it and see that he does say things to the other players.  I then stated that they were just clips of what HBO chose to show and that it was likely others spoke up as well but we just didn't get to see it.  AKA, we aren't getting the full, unedited view.  I never said it was a good indicator or poor indicator of his leadership style, simply that it showed him talking to the guys.

And, again, I never said that the 24/7 episodes are or are not a very good indicator of Carlyle's coaching style, but that it is too difficult to reach the conclusions you are reaching (low on detail, high on shouting) simply from what HBO chose to show us.  Maybe they only showed the shouting bits and left out the detail bits.

I never made any further insinuations that either situation was a strong indicator of anything and they were simply responses to specific, limited instances you brought up.

 

[princedpw]

"It's not my job to get you guys going..."

The more he said that, the more it annoyed me, because it is absolutely part of the coach's job to help his players find the motivation they need. It's not all on him, but, it is still something he has some responsibility for.

I'm not a Carlyle fan (and haven't even watched the episodes), but is it possible that is his motivation technique?  (ie: he thinks the most successful thing is to try to instill a sense of personal responsibility?)

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

"It's not my job to get you guys going..."

The more he said that, the more it annoyed me, because it is absolutely part of the coach's job to help his players find the motivation they need. It's not all on him, but, it is still something he has some responsibility for.

I'm not a Carlyle fan (and haven't even watched the episodes), but is it possible that is his motivation technique?  (ie: he thinks the most successful thing is to try to instill a sense of personal responsibility?)

You might be onto something there.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Personal Responsibility? In this day and age? That's crazy!

 

[bustaheims]

I'm not a Carlyle fan (and haven't even watched the episodes), but is it possible that is his motivation technique?  (ie: he thinks the most successful thing is to try to instill a sense of personal responsibility?)

Well, if it is, it clearly isn't working and it's time for him to try something new. He said variations on the same thing in clips involving more than one game during the 24/7 run. It wasn't just a one shot deal. It's either a personal belief or a failed tactic. Regardless, it's something that needs to be changed.

 

[freer]

In the month of December Holland was tied for 3rd on the team in points and tied for 2nd on the team in goals. And during the month he averaged 13:18 of ice-time per game, which was less than everybody except the 4th liners (D'Amigo/Orr/Bodie/McLaren/Ashton/Smithson). Oh and he pretty much got 0 powerplay time too.

And in the 3 games since Bozak's return he is getting the 2nd least amount of ice-time on the team averaging 7:05/game.

And so he should he has 6 pts in the three games.

 

[mr grieves]

In the month of December Holland was tied for 3rd on the team in points and tied for 2nd on the team in goals. And during the month he averaged 13:18 of ice-time per game, which was less than everybody except the 4th liners (D'Amigo/Orr/Bodie/McLaren/Ashton/Smithson). Oh and he pretty much got 0 powerplay time too.

And in the 3 games since Bozak's return he is getting the 2nd least amount of ice-time on the team averaging 7:05/game.

And so he should he has 6 pts in the three games.

I think the comment was about the immovable lump on the third line.

 

[Stickytape]

I've been catching up on the 24/7 episodes, and man, Carlyle's coaching style is pretty disappointing up close, too.  It's low on detail, and high on shouting platitudes.  He doesn't seem to know how to encourage, only how to threaten.  Maybe I'm biased because I don't respond well to that style of command, but it left me pretty cold.  I'd rather play for a guy like Babcock.

Carlyle came across as a bit uncomfortable on camera, though, so it's hard to say if that's what he's really like.  When he wasn't pissed off he was quiet, laughed nervously, or made weak jokes that mostly fell flat on the floor.  I cringed a lot on his behalf.

It's mostly too hard to say from that alone, since it's edited and presented how HBO wants it so things can be out of context or they can present only a fraction of what goes on.

In the "Should Lupul be Captain?" thread you told me to go watch Phaneuf's leadership style by watching the 24/7 episodes.  Now, in this thread, the 24/7 episodes aren't a very good indicator of Carlyle's coaching style because they're edited by HBO.  Which is it?  You can't have it both ways.

Don't misrepresent what I said.

I never said go watch his leadership style from 24/7.  You made a comment that you don't see Phaneuf talking to the players.  I said to watch it and see that he does say things to the other players.  I then stated that they were just clips of what HBO chose to show and that it was likely others spoke up as well but we just didn't get to see it.  AKA, we aren't getting the full, unedited view.  I never said it was a good indicator or poor indicator of his leadership style, simply that it showed him talking to the guys.

And, again, I never said that the 24/7 episodes are or are not a very good indicator of Carlyle's coaching style, but that it is too difficult to reach the conclusions you are reaching (low on detail, high on shouting) simply from what HBO chose to show us.  Maybe they only showed the shouting bits and left out the detail bits.

I never made any further insinuations that either situation was a strong indicator of anything and they were simply responses to specific, limited instances you brought up.

Sorry if I misrepresented what you said; I wasn't trying to offend you.

I thought by starting my post with "I've been catching up on the 24/7 episodes" that I was being pretty clear that I was giving my opinion based on what I saw in the show. 

In the interests of preventing this sort of mix-up in future, let me state for you now, on the record:  I do not personally know, nor have ever I met, Randy Carlyle.  I watch most Leaf games on TV, tune in to most of Carlyle's post and pre-game interviews, and now I've seen a few fleeting glimpses of his work in the locker room that were aired on HBO, and I think it's safe to say that this is about as close to getting to know Randy Carlyle as I'm going to get.  Given this information, in future, please take anything I say about him with however many grains of salt you feel are appropriate.

 

[bustaheims]

And so he should he has 6 pts in the three games.

So, because Bozak has produced well, Holland deserves to be on the 4th line getting barely any ice time, instead of, I don't know, McClement? I'm pretty sure I'd stick the guy who has no offence and has been outmatched defensively at even strength on the 4th line instead of the guy who was the team's most productive player for the 10 games before Bozak returned.

 

[Highlander]

Why is it so clear to all of us, get Holland on line 2 let Kadri find himself on line 3 and use McClement to his strengths on line 4 and the kill. I also like what I am seeing in D'Amigo, the kid is on the hustle, might be nice to see Leivo on the other side and rest Bolthead for next Halloween.

 

[Palmateer29]

Why is it so clear to all of us, get Holland on line 2 let Kadri find himself on line 3 and use McClement to his strengths on line 4 and the kill. I also like what I am seeing in D'Amigo, the kid is on the hustle, might be nice to see Leivo on the other side and rest Bolthead for next Halloween.

Sorry he has some incriminating pictures of Randy....that's the only thing I find believable...

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

Why is it so clear to all of us, get Holland on line 2 let Kadri find himself on line 3 and use McClement to his strengths on line 4 and the kill. I also like what I am seeing in D'Amigo, the kid is on the hustle, might be nice to see Leivo on the other side and rest Bolthead for next Halloween.

Sorry he has some incriminating pictures of Randy....that's the only thing I find believable...

The one with Randy in bed with a goat?

 

[Palmateer29]

Why is it so clear to all of us, get Holland on line 2 let Kadri find himself on line 3 and use McClement to his strengths on line 4 and the kill. I also like what I am seeing in D'Amigo, the kid is on the hustle, might be nice to see Leivo on the other side and rest Bolthead for next Halloween.

Sorry he has some incriminating pictures of Randy....that's the only thing I find believable...

The one with Randy in bed with a goat?

I can't think of any other reason Orr keeps getting dumped into the lineup. Nothing personal he seems like a great guy but there are many better hockey players. It's funny how he gets waived last year and can't do any wrong this year...sort of the opposite of Liles....

 

[L K]

And so he should he has 6 pts in the three games.

So, because Bozak has produced well, Holland deserves to be on the 4th line getting barely any ice time, instead of, I don't know, McClement? I'm pretty sure I'd stick the guy who has no offence and has been outmatched defensively at even strength on the 4th line instead of the guy who was the team's most productive player for the 10 games before Bozak returned.

I know projected minutes don't mean a lot, but I found this one kind of surprising:
Points/60 minutes 5on5.  I excluded Bodie, Leivo and Bolland as they aren't on the roster right now.
1. Bozak 2.42
2. Kessel 2.18
3. Holland 1.94
4. JVR 1.68
5. Lupul 1.65
6. Kulemin 1.62

The 1st line is all in the top 6. 
Lupul makes sense in the top 6.  He has played the year with a combination of Kadri/Holland/Smith who are scoring 1.48-1.65 points/60.

The guy that really impresses me is actually Nik Kulemin.  He has been stuck playing with Clarkson (0.85) and McClement (0.47). 

Enough with the McClement-Kulemin-Clarkson line for 20 minutes.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

How bad it's become:

‏@mirtle

Leafs are now on pace for 87.5 points with 13 shootout wins. Wilson's last full season they had 85 points with just five shootout wins.

 

[bustaheims]

How bad it's become:

‏@mirtle

Leafs are now on pace for 87.5 points with 13 shootout wins. Wilson's last full season they had 85 points with just five shootout wins.

They're on pace for 26 ROWs (and that's probably on the generous side, considering how few they've recorded of late). That would tie their lowest full season total since the introduction of the shootout. They put up the same total in 09/10, Burke's first full season as GM and the year they gave up the 2nd overall pick to Boston.

 

[Bender]

How bad it's become:

‏@mirtle

Leafs are now on pace for 87.5 points with 13 shootout wins. Wilson's last full season they had 85 points with just five shootout wins.

They're on pace for 26 ROWs (and that's probably on the generous side, considering how few they've recorded of late). That would tie their lowest full season total since the introduction of the shootout. They put up the same total in 09/10, Burke's first full season as GM and the year they gave up the 2nd overall pick to Boston.

TAANNNKKKKK