So, about Phil Kessel...

[Bullfrog]

I concur. I wouldn't be quick to lose Phil if I thought the Leafs could do that, but getting a handful of guys like that is gonna take some time.

That's the problem, Kessel is already near to the peak of his prime.  With his lack of off season training, he's more likely to decline faster physically than most.  We don't have time to retain him, and, try to surround him with the type of players he needs to succeed.

What's your source for that dubious claim?

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

I concur. I wouldn't be quick to lose Phil if I thought the Leafs could do that, but getting a handful of guys like that is gonna take some time.

That's the problem, Kessel is already near to the peak of his prime.  With his lack of off season training, he's more likely to decline faster physically than most.  We don't have time to retain him, and, try to surround him with the type of players he needs to succeed.

What's your source for that dubious claim?

Isn't the lack of exclamation points a clear indication of well-reasoned and well-supported claims?

 

[Bullfrog]

I'm a skeptic, HS, I demand irrefutable evidence.

Unless we're talking about homeopathic medicine. Diluted water cures all.

 

[Pick]

I concur. I wouldn't be quick to lose Phil if I thought the Leafs could do that, but getting a handful of guys like that is gonna take some time.

That's the problem, Kessel is already near to the peak of his prime.  With his lack of off season training, he's more likely to decline faster physically than most.  We don't have time to retain him, and, try to surround him with the type of players he needs to succeed.

What's your source for that dubious claim?

If you say something often enough it somehow becomes the truth. You are right, we really don't know what Phil's off-season training is like. All we can judge is his on-ice performance and he's been this teams highest point scorer for how many seasons?

Phil didn't enjoy one of his better years but most of the NHL stars saw their totals drop this year (Art Ross trophy was won with the fewest point total since like the '60s - shortened seasons not included).

Kessell's gotta go. He's the highest paid player on a team that has performed miserably and he really hasn't helped his cause by winning anybody's heart. But the criticism he gets on this board is way over the top and in most cases not based on known facts.

The same goes for Phaneuf. Kessel and Phaneuf get the most criticism around here but for anybody watching without bias, these two guys are the most intense on the team. If they lack passion, then the rest of the team lacks a pulse.

 

[herman]

I concur. I wouldn't be quick to lose Phil if I thought the Leafs could do that, but getting a handful of guys like that is gonna take some time.

That's the problem, Kessel is already near to the peak of his prime.  With his lack of off season training, he's more likely to decline faster physically than most.  We don't have time to retain him, and, try to surround him with the type of players he needs to succeed.

What's your source for that dubious claim?

If you say something often enough it somehow becomes the truth. You are right, we really don't know what Phil's off-season training is like. All we can judge is his on-ice performance and he's been this teams highest point scorer for how many seasons?

Phil didn't enjoy one of his better years but most of the NHL stars saw their totals drop this year (Art Ross trophy was won with the fewest point total since like the '60s - shortened seasons not included).

Kessell's gotta go. He's the highest paid player on a team that has performed miserably and he really hasn't helped his cause by winning anybody's heart. But the criticism he gets on this board is way over the top and in most cases not based on known facts.

The same goes for Phaneuf. Kessel and Phaneuf get the most criticism around here but for anybody watching without bias, these two guys are the most intense on the team. If they lack passion, then the rest of the team lacks a pulse.

Strong post, Pick. Welcome to the board and thanks for contributing to the discussion!

 

[moon111]

In the previous season, Kessel scored 3 goals and had 4 assists in the final 16 games.  Was a '+' player for six of those games.  He hasn't finished the last two seasons out very well.  Whether that be physical or mental conditioning, who knows?  Maybe he just wants to get down to Florida and play some golf and go fishing.

 

[mr grieves]

In the previous season, Kessel scored 3 goals and had 4 assists in the final 16 games.  Was a '+' player for six of those games.  He hasn't finished the last two seasons out very well.  Whether that be physical or mental conditioning, who knows?  Maybe he just wants to get down to Florida and play some golf and go fishing.

Well, I remember in the 2013-14 season the top line was leaned on more heavily than just about any other line in the league (something to do with the GM ensuring there was absolutely no depth), so Kessel & c. looked pretty broken down by the end of the season. As to the more recent year, well out of the play-offs, gutted roster, toxic environment -- I'd be wary of drawing too many conclusions.

 

[moon111]

In the previous season, Kessel scored 3 goals and had 4 assists in the final 16 games.  Was a '+' player for six of those games.  He hasn't finished the last two seasons out very well.  Whether that be physical or mental conditioning, who knows?  Maybe he just wants to get down to Florida and play some golf and go fishing.

Well, I remember in the 2013-14 season the top line was leaned on more heavily than just about any other line in the league (something to do with the GM ensuring there was absolutely no depth), so Kessel & c. looked pretty broken down by the end of the season. As to the more recent year, well out of the play-offs, gutted roster, toxic environment -- I'd be wary of drawing too many conclusions.

Crosby had more ice-time, maintained a point-per-game pace, and played 13 more games in the playoffs.  Maybe he's in better shape?

 

[Kin]

Crosby had more ice-time, maintained a point-per-game pace, and played 13 more games in the playoffs.  Maybe he's in better shape?

Or maybe he's the best player in the world? And even his scoring dropped off sharply in the playoffs?

 

[Redleaf]

Crosby had more ice-time, maintained a point-per-game pace, and played 13 more games in t

Or maybe he's the best player in the world?

So, is McDavid the best player to come along 'since' Crosby or since 'before' Crosby?

 

[Kin]

So, is McDavid the best player to come along 'since' Crosby or since 'before' Crosby?

I think he's the best prospect since Crosby but I'll wait until he sets foot on NHL ice before I say what kind of player he is.

 

[mr grieves]

In the previous season, Kessel scored 3 goals and had 4 assists in the final 16 games.  Was a '+' player for six of those games.  He hasn't finished the last two seasons out very well.  Whether that be physical or mental conditioning, who knows?  Maybe he just wants to get down to Florida and play some golf and go fishing.

Well, I remember in the 2013-14 season the top line was leaned on more heavily than just about any other line in the league (something to do with the GM ensuring there was absolutely no depth), so Kessel & c. looked pretty broken down by the end of the season. As to the more recent year, well out of the play-offs, gutted roster, toxic environment -- I'd be wary of drawing too many conclusions.

Crosby had more ice-time, maintained a point-per-game pace, and played 13 more games in the playoffs.  Maybe he's in better shape?

Yes. Phil Kessel is not as good as Sidney Crosby.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

In the previous season, Kessel scored 3 goals and had 4 assists in the final 16 games.  Was a '+' player for six of those games.  He hasn't finished the last two seasons out very well.  Whether that be physical or mental conditioning, who knows?  Maybe he just wants to get down to Florida and play some golf and go fishing.

Well, I remember in the 2013-14 season the top line was leaned on more heavily than just about any other line in the league (something to do with the GM ensuring there was absolutely no depth), so Kessel & c. looked pretty broken down by the end of the season. As to the more recent year, well out of the play-offs, gutted roster, toxic environment -- I'd be wary of drawing too many conclusions.

Crosby had more ice-time, maintained a point-per-game pace, and played 13 more games in the playoffs.  Maybe he's in better shape?

Or quite simply, a better player.

 

[Al14]

In the previous season, Kessel scored 3 goals and had 4 assists in the final 16 games.  Was a '+' player for six of those games.  He hasn't finished the last two seasons out very well.  Whether that be physical or mental conditioning, who knows?  Maybe he just wants to get down to Florida and play some golf and go fishing.

Well, I remember in the 2013-14 season the top line was leaned on more heavily than just about any other line in the league (something to do with the GM ensuring there was absolutely no depth), so Kessel & c. looked pretty broken down by the end of the season. As to the more recent year, well out of the play-offs, gutted roster, toxic environment -- I'd be wary of drawing too many conclusions.

Crosby had more ice-time, maintained a point-per-game pace, and played 13 more games in the playoffs.  Maybe he's in better shape?

Or quite simply, a better player.

As much as I dislike Crosby, he's a much better all-around player than Kessel!  Hands down, no questions asked IMHO.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

As much as I dislike Crosby, he's a much better all-around player than Kessel!  Hands down, no questions asked IMHO.

He's a better all-around player than every human on this planet, that's not even an opinion.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I don't mind having an unpopular opinion or going out on a limb so I'll just say it: I think Wayne Gretzky was better than Kessel.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I prefer the taste of butter over margarine. There, I said it.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

I prefer the taste of butter over margarine. There, I said it.

Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

I don't mind having an unpopular opinion or going out on a limb so I'll just say it: I think Wayne Gretzky was better than Kessel.

Your bold proclamation has given me the courage to admit that I believe that the Chicago Blackhawks are better than the Toronto Maple Leafs.

 

[Al14]

I don't mind having an unpopular opinion or going out on a limb so I'll just say it: I think Wayne Gretzky was better than Kessel.

Your bold proclamation has given me the courage to admit that I believe that the Chicago Blackhawks are better than the Toronto Maple Leafs.

Just because the Chicago Blackhawks can make the playoffs, and, win the Stanley Cup, doesn't make them better than the Toronto Maple Leafs!  Come on!  LOL