Steve Stamkos?

[herman]

If we spring for Stamkos, then we create a need for #1D, #1G to maximize Stamkos' tenure here and that will cost us dearly. Alternatively, as some have suggested, we could just keep Stamkos on to be a good example on the team (for $10M) and keep drafting; several posters have already pointed out how that really doesn't help the build at all and is a ridiculous waste of limited resources.

I mean, regardless of whether or not Stamkos is signed there is a need for a #1D and a #1G - they aren't going without attempting to obtain those over the next 7ish years.  At the very least a #1G is required regardless.

But Pittsburgh is also 1 win away from the Cup with a pretty underwhelming defense.  I don't think you necessarily NEED any specific thing if you make up for it elsewhere.  Teams have won the Cup recently with underwhelming goaltending going into the playoffs as well (see Niemi).

It remains to be seen how sustainable Pittsburgh's run will be. We're aiming for multiple, repeated kicks at the Cup. Pittsburgh also has Letang, who eats 30 minutes a game and does everything, which makes up a lot for an otherwise weak defense. I think Rielly can play 30; I'd like to give him some time to become more effective overall to warrant the 30 min.

Pittsburgh's forward depth, however, is something we could definitely project to be possible on the Leafs in the next 3 years, between Matthews, Kadri, Marner, Nylander, and other role players already in the fold.

 

[TBLeafer]

I will end my par of this debate with a quote from Lou Lamoriello.

?I don?t feel good about being the first one up there,? said Lamoriello. ?That?s the last thing in the world you want. I?ve always been fortunate that we?re always drafting in the latter part of the draft.

?It?s not being up there first that you feel good about. What you feel good about is you have the opportunity to pick the player you want prior to anybody else selecting. I hope this is the last time the Toronto Maple Leafs get this opportunity.?

 

[TBLeafer]

I say for posterity's sake we now close this thread. Its obvious nobody's changing anybody's mind one way or the other and see where the chips fall in just three weeks time.

91 pages of discussion for #91.

I wonder who has dibs at the World Cup?

You heard the man, 91 pages for #91 John Tavares.

 

[bustaheims]

I will end my par of this debate with a quote from Lou Lamoriello.

?I don?t feel good about being the first one up there,? said Lamoriello. ?That?s the last thing in the world you want. I?ve always been fortunate that we?re always drafting in the latter part of the draft.

?It?s not being up there first that you feel good about. What you feel good about is you have the opportunity to pick the player you want prior to anybody else selecting. I hope this is the last time the Toronto Maple Leafs get this opportunity.?

GM makes generic comments GMs make. Sky still blue.

Of course Lou doesn't want to make a habit of drafting 1st overall. No one does. Most of us want next season to be the last time the Leafs are in that conversation, as that would mean the Leafs stuck to the plan and didn't try to artificially accelerate the process, but, it would also mean that the prospects have been given time to develop, and, if next year does prove to be the last year they're in that conversation, those prospects are starting to develop as we hope. It also doesn't hurt that one of the top 2 or 3 prospects in next year's draft is a potential top pairing defenceman - but, that's largely coincidental. Those of us who are preaching patience would still be preaching patience regardless of who could potentially be available at the top of the draft next season.

 

[TBLeafer]

GM makes generic comments GMs make. Sky still blue.

Of course Lou doesn't want to make a habit of drafting 1st overall. No one does. Most of us want next season to be the last time the Leafs are in that conversation, as that would mean the Leafs stuck to the plan and didn't try to artificially accelerate the process, but, it would also mean that the prospects have been given time to develop, and, if next year does prove to be the last year they're in that conversation, those prospects are starting to develop as we hope. It also doesn't hurt that one of the top 2 or 3 prospects in next year's draft is a potential top pairing defenceman - but, that's largely coincidental. Those of us who are preaching patience would still be preaching patience regardless of who could potentially be available at the top of the draft next season.

I am preaching patience and I'll leave it at that.

Wait for a player you want in your roster to improve your team going forward, but being willing to take your chances with that player potentially hitting free agency, instead of trading away your future for him is very patient.

 

[herman]

I am preaching patience and I'll leave it at that.

Wait for a player you want in your roster to improve your team going forward, but being willing to take your chances with that player potentially hitting free agency, instead of trading away your future for him is very patient.

Teams should not plan their builds around who might come up in free agency. Not only is it uncontrollable who makes it to market, it is usually the most expensive route to acquire players of an attractive caliber.

The type of patience some of us here are preaching has to do with taking the path that opens more options with acceptable risk, until we are in position to strike on the free agency or trade markets because the team is already a playoff contender and needs a small push to get into Championship contention -- pretty much what Shanahan, Dubas, Babcock, and Lou have been saying since they got here.

These seasons of focusing on development and the process over outright winning, of holding off on making free agent splashes or big trades, are exactly the pain that Babcock referred to in his first presser. It's how championship teams are forged.

Brendan Shanahan , April 12, 2015

"The challenge in Toronto is not coming up with the plan but sticking to the plan. That is the hard part. Our vision is to draft and develop our own players. I think every decision we make has to be about building a winning organization that can sustain itself year after year after year through the draft."

Mike Babcock, May 20, 2015

[We have to] be patient. Get good things going. Not deviate from the plan. Set ourselves up for a 10-year run. It?s probably going to take us three years to get that run set up. [...] "If you think there?s no pain coming ... there?s pain coming.?

 

[TBLeafer]

I am preaching patience and I'll leave it at that.

Wait for a player you want in your roster to improve your team going forward, but being willing to take your chances with that player potentially hitting free agency, instead of trading away your future for him is very patient.

Teams should not plan their builds around who might come up in free agency. Not only is it uncontrollable who makes it to market, it is usually the most expensive route to acquire players of an attractive caliber.

The type of patience some of us here are preaching has to do with taking the path that opens more options with acceptable risk, until we are in position to strike on the free agency or trade markets because the team is already a playoff contender and needs a small push to get into Championship contention -- pretty much what Shanahan, Dubas, Babcock, and Lou have been saying since they got here.

These seasons of focusing on development and the process over outright winning, of holding off on making free agent splashes or big trades, are exactly the pain that Babcock referred to in his first presser. It's how championship teams are forged.

92 pages now, you just messed it up and you still aren't convincing anyone who isn't already convinced. 

No team makes plans to build teams around players who may or may not be available via UFA. 

But they do build teams with players via UFA once they do become available if those players are elite.

You're just scared of a big money contract at this time.  Again I disagree.  Its an ideal time for a big money contract given our future cap projection.

Its an ideal time to maximize the potential of Kadri, Rielly and JVR.  Its an ideal time to insulate our coming rookies with one of the best leaders and role models the league has to offer in their mid twenties.

 

[Coco-puffs]

Teams should not plan their builds around who might come up in free agency. Not only is it uncontrollable who makes it to market, it is usually the most expensive route to acquire players of an attractive caliber.

The type of patience some of us here are preaching has to do with taking the path that opens more options with acceptable risk, until we are in position to strike on the free agency or trade markets because the team is already a playoff contender and needs a small push to get into Championship contention, which is pretty much in line with what Shanahan, Dubas, Babcock, and Lou have been saying since they got here.

These seasons of focusing on development and the process over outright winning, of holding off on making free agent splashes or big trades, are exactly the pain that Babcock referred to in his first presser. It's how championship teams are forged.

Actually, Shanahan et al have said they want to improve this team as quickly as possible without hampering their long term vision for the team- which is to have an ERA of success, not just a window. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RL9jMl6e_tM

They want to bring in the people they believe will help achieve that vision, not when they are already a good team- but when the right opportunity presents itself.  Hence signing Babcock, hence probably trying to sign Stamkos.

 

[TBLeafer]

Teams should not plan their builds around who might come up in free agency. Not only is it uncontrollable who makes it to market, it is usually the most expensive route to acquire players of an attractive caliber.

The type of patience some of us here are preaching has to do with taking the path that opens more options with acceptable risk, until we are in position to strike on the free agency or trade markets because the team is already a playoff contender and needs a small push to get into Championship contention, which is pretty much in line with what Shanahan, Dubas, Babcock, and Lou have been saying since they got here.

These seasons of focusing on development and the process over outright winning, of holding off on making free agent splashes or big trades, are exactly the pain that Babcock referred to in his first presser. It's how championship teams are forged.

Actually, Shanahan et al have said they want to improve this team as quickly as possible without hampering their long term vision for the team- which is to have an ERA of success, not just a window. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RL9jMl6e_tM

They want to bring in the people they believe will help achieve that vision, not when they are already a good team- but when the right opportunity presents itself.  Hence signing Babcock, hence probably trying to sign Stamkos.

Good to know someone else is paying attention to EVERYTHING being said. 

 

[herman]

I am preaching patience and I'll leave it at that.

Wait for a player you want in your roster to improve your team going forward, but being willing to take your chances with that player potentially hitting free agency, instead of trading away your future for him is very patient.

Teams should not plan their builds around who might come up in free agency. Not only is it uncontrollable who makes it to market, it is usually the most expensive route to acquire players of an attractive caliber.

The type of patience some of us here are preaching has to do with taking the path that opens more options with acceptable risk, until we are in position to strike on the free agency or trade markets because the team is already a playoff contender and needs a small push to get into Championship contention -- pretty much what Shanahan, Dubas, Babcock, and Lou have been saying since they got here.

These seasons of focusing on development and the process over outright winning, of holding off on making free agent splashes or big trades, are exactly the pain that Babcock referred to in his first presser. It's how championship teams are forged.

92 pages now, you just messed it up and you still aren't convincing anyone who isn't already convinced. 

No team makes plans to build teams around players who may or may not be available via UFA. 

But they do build teams with players via UFA once they do become available if those players are elite.

You're just scared of a big money contract at this time.  Again I disagree.  Its an ideal time for a big money contract given our future cap projection.

Its an ideal time to maximize the potential of Kadri, Rielly and JVR.  Its an ideal time to insulate our coming rookies with one of the best leaders and role models the league has to offer in their mid twenties.

I'm not looking to convince you in this public forum because you have provided ample evidence that you are stalwart in your beliefs. Kudos. I respond to your posts because others will read it and subsequent responses too and then they can choose for themselves what the evidence, arguments, and facts (or assertions) say to them and draw their own conclusions. If you read this thread from the beginning, you can track how my own stance has changed and adjusted to the situation and the evidence other posters have laid out.

You cannot speak for me and assume that I am afraid of the big money contract; my motivations are not fear-driven, they are option oriented. The dollar is down and the Salary Cap is flat and hasn't grown at the expected rate, so now is absolutely not the time the team should tie up a significant percentage of their cap for a player they truly do not need yet, and might already develop internally.

If you want to spend a 10M+ cap hit on character and insulation, great! I would rather keep building the foundation now while the walls are still relatively bare frames, rather than tearing furnishings down to fix a structural flaw later.

 

[rdowdall]

Teams should not plan their builds around who might come up in free agency. Not only is it uncontrollable who makes it to market, it is usually the most expensive route to acquire players of an attractive caliber.

The type of patience some of us here are preaching has to do with taking the path that opens more options with acceptable risk, until we are in position to strike on the free agency or trade markets because the team is already a playoff contender and needs a small push to get into Championship contention, which is pretty much in line with what Shanahan, Dubas, Babcock, and Lou have been saying since they got here.

These seasons of focusing on development and the process over outright winning, of holding off on making free agent splashes or big trades, are exactly the pain that Babcock referred to in his first presser. It's how championship teams are forged.

Actually, Shanahan et al have said they want to improve this team as quickly as possible without hampering their long term vision for the team- which is to have an ERA of success, not just a window. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RL9jMl6e_tM

They want to bring in the people they believe will help achieve that vision, not when they are already a good team- but when the right opportunity presents itself.  Hence signing Babcock, hence probably trying to sign Stamkos.

Good to know someone else is paying attention to EVERYTHING being said. 

This coming from the person who ignores huge swaths of peoples posts when it suits their narrative.  If you didn't like the type of person who degrades others on the older forums that you posted on, then why are you being that person?

 

[TBLeafer]

Teams should not plan their builds around who might come up in free agency. Not only is it uncontrollable who makes it to market, it is usually the most expensive route to acquire players of an attractive caliber.

The type of patience some of us here are preaching has to do with taking the path that opens more options with acceptable risk, until we are in position to strike on the free agency or trade markets because the team is already a playoff contender and needs a small push to get into Championship contention, which is pretty much in line with what Shanahan, Dubas, Babcock, and Lou have been saying since they got here.

These seasons of focusing on development and the process over outright winning, of holding off on making free agent splashes or big trades, are exactly the pain that Babcock referred to in his first presser. It's how championship teams are forged.

Actually, Shanahan et al have said they want to improve this team as quickly as possible without hampering their long term vision for the team- which is to have an ERA of success, not just a window. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RL9jMl6e_tM

They want to bring in the people they believe will help achieve that vision, not when they are already a good team- but when the right opportunity presents itself.  Hence signing Babcock, hence probably trying to sign Stamkos.

Good to know someone else is paying attention to EVERYTHING being said. 

This coming from the person who ignores huge swaths of peoples posts when it suits their narrative.  If you didn't like the type of person who degrades others on the older forums that you posted on, then why are you being that person?

I'm not ignoring.  Just choosing not to respond to redundant wheel spinning.

Degrading?  How?  Its just a fact that some here ignore the whole picture here and zero in on that which suits their narrative.

And if I missed something someone wanted a response to from me, forgive me.  How do you set up quote notifications here?  I haven't figured it out so I may have missed a post here and there when someone quoted me.

 

[Kin]

Actually, Shanahan et al have said they want to improve this team as quickly as possible without hampering their long term vision for the team- which is to have an ERA of success, not just a window. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RL9jMl6e_tM

From your own link:

We want to get better as soon as possible. People have misunderstood us if people think we want to do this slowly [but] the fact of the matter is that's how history goes and I think if you're going to be successful you have to be good at the draft. It has to be your backbone

We don't want to do this slowly, we're just telling people that realistic expectation is that these things take time

You guys are confusing competitive people talking about what they'd ideally like to have happen with reasonable people making actual plans.

 

[rdowdall]

Teams should not plan their builds around who might come up in free agency. Not only is it uncontrollable who makes it to market, it is usually the most expensive route to acquire players of an attractive caliber.

The type of patience some of us here are preaching has to do with taking the path that opens more options with acceptable risk, until we are in position to strike on the free agency or trade markets because the team is already a playoff contender and needs a small push to get into Championship contention, which is pretty much in line with what Shanahan, Dubas, Babcock, and Lou have been saying since they got here.

These seasons of focusing on development and the process over outright winning, of holding off on making free agent splashes or big trades, are exactly the pain that Babcock referred to in his first presser. It's how championship teams are forged.

Actually, Shanahan et al have said they want to improve this team as quickly as possible without hampering their long term vision for the team- which is to have an ERA of success, not just a window. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RL9jMl6e_tM

They want to bring in the people they believe will help achieve that vision, not when they are already a good team- but when the right opportunity presents itself.  Hence signing Babcock, hence probably trying to sign Stamkos.

Good to know someone else is paying attention to EVERYTHING being said. 

This coming from the person who ignores huge swaths of peoples posts when it suits their narrative.  If you didn't like the type of person who degrades others on the older forums that you posted on, then why are you being that person?

I'm not ignoring.  Just choosing not to respond to redundant wheel spinning.

Degrading?  How?  Its just a fact that some here ignore the whole picture here and zero in on that which suits their narrative.

And if I missed something someone wanted a response to from me, forgive me.  How do you set up quote notifications here?  I haven't figured it out so I may have missed a post here and there when someone quoted me.

Your implying that Herman isn't paying attention and that he isn't on the ball, when the exact opposite is true.  And in fact, if you paid attention to EVERYTHING, then you would realise that Herman is trying to take all of the sides of this debate in and hasn't really come down on either side yet.  In fact in another thread he encouraged you to post a response in this thread because he thought it was a decent point of view. 

To say that he doesn't pay attention to EVERYTHING in big bold letters is somewhat insulting considering that he has been trying to account for both sides of the argument since this thread started.

People have asked you pointed questions about where and how the Leafs are going to flush out the defence and the goaltending on their roster based on your plan, which you just ignore.  You ignore the whole "How are the Leafs going to account for their deficiencies?" in your plan question.

 

[TBLeafer]

Actually, Shanahan et al have said they want to improve this team as quickly as possible without hampering their long term vision for the team- which is to have an ERA of success, not just a window. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RL9jMl6e_tM

From your own link:

We want to get better as soon as possible. People have misunderstood us if people think we want to do this slowly [but] the fact of the matter is that's how history goes and I think if you're going to be successful you have to be good at the draft. It has to be your backbone

We don't want to do this slowly, we're just telling people that realistic expectation is that these things take time

You guys are confusing competitive people talking about what they'd ideally like to have happen with reasonable people making actual plans.

I like this one:

In his own end-of-season PTS appearance, Shanahan reminded the world that it was never the organization's intent to rebuild slowly. Shanahan stressed that a team cannot build via draft alone.

"You also have to make good trades. That's how we acquired a guy like [Zach] Hyman. You also have to make good signings," said the Leafs president. "You can't just do it one way. You have to be nimble. You have to be an organization that can do it in a lot of different ways."

 

[Coco-puffs]

Actually, Shanahan et al have said they want to improve this team as quickly as possible without hampering their long term vision for the team- which is to have an ERA of success, not just a window. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RL9jMl6e_tM

From your own link:

We want to get better as soon as possible. People have misunderstood us if people think we want to do this slowly [but] the fact of the matter is that's how history goes and I think if you're going to be successful you have to be good at the draft. It has to be your backbone

We don't want to do this slowly, we're just telling people that realistic expectation is that these things take time

You guys are confusing competitive people talking about what they'd ideally like to have happen with reasonable people making actual plans.

I didn't overlook that statement.  I think we ALL agree drafting well is the most vital important thing this franchise needs to do.  And that means beyond the first round.

I was taking issue with this:

...until we are in position to strike on the free agency or trade markets because the team is already a playoff contender and needs a small push to get into Championship contention, which is pretty much in line with what Shanahan, Dubas, Babcock, and Lou have been saying since they got here

Leafs Management didn't say they would wait until the team was better to make team improving trades or free agent acquisitions.  They said they would do it when the right opportunity presents itself, including signing free agents they feel fit into the team THIS YEAR (and next year). 

 

[Kin]

I like this one:

In his own end-of-season PTS appearance, Shanahan reminded the world that it was never the organization's intent to rebuild slowly. Shanahan stressed that a team cannot build via draft alone.

"You also have to make good trades. That's how we acquired a guy like [Zach] Hyman. You also have to make good signings," said the Leafs president. "You can't just do it one way. You have to be nimble. You have to be an organization that can do it in a lot of different ways."

Sure, but that's the fundamental problem with the "If we have another top 5 pick that makes us just like Edmonton!" that keeps getting repeated. Nobody is advocating just building through the draft. That serves as a counter part to nobody. I've said many, many times on the board that they should trade JVR this summer, hopefully for either a very good defensive prospect or for another high pick in this year's draft. Likewise, every single person who's responded to you here hasn't rejected the idea of signing Stamkos simply because he's a UFA and UFA's should never be signed, every single person has said that one of the reasons they're not in favour of signing Stamkos is that he will take up cap space the Leafs could use to sign other UFA's that might be better suited to the players they've acquired via the draft when the time is right.

So the idea of a team building through all three avenues isn't something you have a claim to or is a meaningful rebuttal to anything anyone's said. You just continue to ignore every single element of context in the argument in favour of saying that paying any attention to what he says about the process being a slow one akin to advocating that the team becomes the Edmonton Oilers.

 

[TBLeafer]

Teams should not plan their builds around who might come up in free agency. Not only is it uncontrollable who makes it to market, it is usually the most expensive route to acquire players of an attractive caliber.

The type of patience some of us here are preaching has to do with taking the path that opens more options with acceptable risk, until we are in position to strike on the free agency or trade markets because the team is already a playoff contender and needs a small push to get into Championship contention, which is pretty much in line with what Shanahan, Dubas, Babcock, and Lou have been saying since they got here.

These seasons of focusing on development and the process over outright winning, of holding off on making free agent splashes or big trades, are exactly the pain that Babcock referred to in his first presser. It's how championship teams are forged.

Actually, Shanahan et al have said they want to improve this team as quickly as possible without hampering their long term vision for the team- which is to have an ERA of success, not just a window. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RL9jMl6e_tM

They want to bring in the people they believe will help achieve that vision, not when they are already a good team- but when the right opportunity presents itself.  Hence signing Babcock, hence probably trying to sign Stamkos.

Good to know someone else is paying attention to EVERYTHING being said. 

This coming from the person who ignores huge swaths of peoples posts when it suits their narrative.  If you didn't like the type of person who degrades others on the older forums that you posted on, then why are you being that person?

I'm not ignoring.  Just choosing not to respond to redundant wheel spinning.

Degrading?  How?  Its just a fact that some here ignore the whole picture here and zero in on that which suits their narrative.

And if I missed something someone wanted a response to from me, forgive me.  How do you set up quote notifications here?  I haven't figured it out so I may have missed a post here and there when someone quoted me.

Your implying that Herman isn't paying attention and that he isn't on the ball, when the exact opposite is true.  And in fact, if you paid attention to EVERYTHING, then you would realise that Herman is trying to take all of the sides of this debate in and hasn't really come down on either side yet.  In fact in another thread he encouraged you to post a response in this thread because he thought it was a decent point of view. 

To say that he doesn't pay attention to EVERYTHING in big bold letters is somewhat insulting considering that he has been trying to account for both sides of the argument since this thread started.

People have asked you pointed questions about where and how the Leafs are going to flush out the defence and the goaltending on their roster based on your plan, which you just ignore.  You ignore the whole "How are the Leafs going to account for their deficiencies?" in your plan question.

No, not at all.  I stressed patience, not jettisoning picks and prospects just because we acquire Stamkos.  I said that Stammer has to agree to go along with the Shanaplan and that it doesn't all of a sudden become the Stammerplan and BTW that post got completely "ignored" too, but I don't ever hold anything against anyone for "ignoring" posts on a forum, especially ones I can't figure out how to get quote notifications on.

I just here to talk, cheer and debate about my favourite sports team and have fun.

 

[herman]

Your implying that Herman isn't paying attention and that he isn't on the ball, when the exact opposite is true.  And in fact, if you paid attention to EVERYTHING, then you would realise that Herman is trying to take all of the sides of this debate in and hasn't really come down on either side yet.  In fact in another thread he encouraged you to post a response in this thread because he thought it was a decent point of view. 

To say that he doesn't pay attention to EVERYTHING in big bold letters is somewhat insulting considering that he has been trying to account for both sides of the argument since this thread started.

People have asked you pointed questions about where and how the Leafs are going to flush out the defence and the goaltending on their roster based on your plan, which you just ignore.  You ignore the whole "How are the Leafs going to account for their deficiencies?" in your plan question.

Thanks SI (for caring and paying attention)! I don't take things said here personally anyway, unless they're heartfelt and encouraging like this.

I am indeed trying to account for both sides of the argument but I am leaning towards the side that has logical, evidence-based arguments though!

Actually, Shanahan et al have said they want to improve this team as quickly as possible without hampering their long term vision for the team- which is to have an ERA of success, not just a window. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RL9jMl6e_tM

They want to bring in the people they believe will help achieve that vision, not when they are already a good team- but when the right opportunity presents itself.  Hence signing Babcock, hence probably trying to sign Stamkos.

I wasn't aware of this clip before, thanks! Definitely illuminating.
I can understand why people would interpret that to mean 'Stamkos is Coming'.

Here are some ways the Leafs have been building the team as fast as possible:
- shrewd short-term UFA signings (with good character) to generate draft picks and insulate developing players
- trading off Cap-heavy contracts (Kessel, Phaneuf, etc.) and always trying to get close-to-NHL prospects out of their returns (Kapanen, Lindberg, and in other trades: Leipsic, C. Carrick)
- trading down picks for more picks

This has led to layers of skilled/high potential prospects in staggered tiers. It's the engine of a team's development program.

Yes, Shanahan said if there's a good player out there, they'll pursue him, but always with the caveat of 'fitting the long term plan'. I have yet to see a compelling argument that Stamkos fits the long term plan. It has so far always been the Leafs adjusting their plan to fit Stamkos.

 

[TBLeafer]

I am preaching patience and I'll leave it at that.

Wait for a player you want in your roster to improve your team going forward, but being willing to take your chances with that player potentially hitting free agency, instead of trading away your future for him is very patient.

Teams should not plan their builds around who might come up in free agency. Not only is it uncontrollable who makes it to market, it is usually the most expensive route to acquire players of an attractive caliber.

The type of patience some of us here are preaching has to do with taking the path that opens more options with acceptable risk, until we are in position to strike on the free agency or trade markets because the team is already a playoff contender and needs a small push to get into Championship contention -- pretty much what Shanahan, Dubas, Babcock, and Lou have been saying since they got here.

These seasons of focusing on development and the process over outright winning, of holding off on making free agent splashes or big trades, are exactly the pain that Babcock referred to in his first presser. It's how championship teams are forged.

92 pages now, you just messed it up and you still aren't convincing anyone who isn't already convinced. 

No team makes plans to build teams around players who may or may not be available via UFA. 

But they do build teams with players via UFA once they do become available if those players are elite.

You're just scared of a big money contract at this time.  Again I disagree.  Its an ideal time for a big money contract given our future cap projection.

Its an ideal time to maximize the potential of Kadri, Rielly and JVR.  Its an ideal time to insulate our coming rookies with one of the best leaders and role models the league has to offer in their mid twenties.

I'm not looking to convince you in this public forum because you have provided ample evidence that you are stalwart in your beliefs. Kudos. I respond to your posts because others will read it and subsequent responses too and then they can choose for themselves what the evidence, arguments, and facts (or assertions) say to them and draw their own conclusions. If you read this thread from the beginning, you can track how my own stance has changed and adjusted to the situation and the evidence other posters have laid out.

You cannot speak for me and assume that I am afraid of the big money contract; my motivations are not fear-driven, they are option oriented. The dollar is down and the Salary Cap is flat and hasn't grown at the expected rate, so now is absolutely not the time the team should tie up a significant percentage of their cap for a player they truly do not need yet, and might already develop internally.

If you want to spend a 10M+ cap hit on character and insulation, great! I would rather keep building the foundation now while the walls are still relatively bare frames, rather than tearing furnishings down to fix a structural flaw later.

When precisely did you change your viewpoint?  Before or after we drafted Matthews?