Tank Nation UNITE!!!

[Bender]

Draft for similar personalities (Santorelli is a Roberts-lite) and our bottom six will do just fine.

So Tyler Biggs, Phillipe Paradis...tough guys?

I don't see much of Santorelli in Tyler Biggs and Phillipe Paradis. He is a hard skating, hard working team player. Not the most skilled, but puts everything he has into doing his job. His other teammates have made fun of him for all the extra hours he puts into his stickwork along the boards, and quick turn cuts.

See Siegel's article from Nov 2014.

I'm sorry dude but you can't be serious. All things being equal, including work ethic, you draft for skill plain and simple. Do you think the majority of players making it into the draft do so because they were lazy and didn't try game in game out? I find that exceedingly hard to believe.

I love how people think skill is god given and hard work is within control. Sometimes players are better than others because they not only have higher ceilings but also worked their butts off to get so good and to the level that they're at.

Even if you get paid a lot to play you still have a passion for the game and desire to win. Its bred into you by that point.

 

[brothert]

alexander daigle.

 

[Bender]

alexander daigle.

Pavel Datsyuk.

 

[brothert]

ben johnson

 

[Bill_Berg]

My butt.

 

[brothert]

stinks?

 

[Kin]

I'm sorry dude but you can't be serious. All things being equal, including work ethic, you draft for skill plain and simple. Do you think the majority of players making it into the draft do so because they were lazy and didn't try game in game out? I find that exceedingly hard to believe.

I love how people think skill is god given and hard work is within control. Sometimes players are better than others because they not only have higher ceilings but also worked their butts off to get so good and to the level that they're at.

Even if you get paid a lot to play you still have a passion for the game and desire to win. Its bred into you by that point.

And to that end, no matter how much Mike Santorelli might have the mental and physical attributes that make for an ideal 3rd liner or depth player, he's also 28 years old. His attitude, his work ethic and, yes, his physical make-up are going to be effected by his 10 years as a professional.

Was Santorelli super serious as an 18 year old? I don't know. I think it's safe to say that, like most people, he probably changed some in his first years as an adult. When 18 year olds are interviewed in the scouting process I'm sure that seriousness and dedication to hockey are, like you say, pretty common answers. The thing that you can't really know is how these players will react to the setbacks and demands and money that come with a pro career.

So really all you're left with is footspeed and footspeed is A) easily measurable and B) a valued commodity.

 

[Kin]

alexander daigle.

I don't know what that's in reference to but I think Daigle is the ultimate example of what I'm talking about. Daigle wasn't an out of left field pick. There was some debate that year about who should go #1 but it wasn't like Daigle was supposed to be a 3rd round pick. If the mental make-up that made for a successful NHL player was easy to identify in 18 year olds then talent distribution in the draft would be a lot more top heavy.

 

[brothert]

i recall the daigle was praised highly for his skill set but there were worries about his workethic.

it was a caveat to the draft the most skilled. theres more to it.

conversely the johnson comment was out there to address the comment about god given skill. i prefer to consider it genetics vs god given. the man was the fastest canadian ever for a long time. unless of course you are willing to consider that there are a lot of white canadian sprinters who are not working hard enough.

 

[Kin]

i recall the daigle was praised highly for his skill set but there were worries about his workethic.

Sure. And there were worries about Phil Kessel's work ethic. And Jaromir Jagr's. And a whole host of players who went on to be terrific hockey players. Likewise, there are tons of super-hard working AHLers. My point is that there is no one mental make-up that makes for success. Look at the Blackhawks. They have two great young forwards. One is, by all accounts, the most serious guy who ever lived and the other is kind of an idiot who gets into drunken mishaps.

I agree that there's more to it than just "skill" in the fairly narrow way we define skill but that doesn't make it any easier to gauge.

 

[herman]

Draft for similar personalities (Santorelli is a Roberts-lite) and our bottom six will do just fine.

So Tyler Biggs, Phillipe Paradis...tough guys?

I don't see much of Santorelli in Tyler Biggs and Phillipe Paradis. He is a hard skating, hard working team player. Not the most skilled, but puts everything he has into doing his job. His other teammates have made fun of him for all the extra hours he puts into his stickwork along the boards, and quick turn cuts.

See Siegel's article from Nov 2014.

I'm sorry dude but you can't be serious. All things being equal, including work ethic, you draft for skill plain and simple. Do you think the majority of players making it into the draft do so because they were lazy and didn't try game in game out? I find that exceedingly hard to believe.

I love how people think skill is god given and hard work is within control. Sometimes players are better than others because they not only have higher ceilings but also worked their butts off to get so good and to the level that they're at.

Even if you get paid a lot to play you still have a passion for the game and desire to win. Its bred into you by that point.

I get where you're coming from, but I wasn't saying draft based on personality in the absence of skill.

Santorelli used to coast by on his good enough skill. He wisened up after bouncing around. I was just saying we should look out for more players who exhibit the qualities of his personality; people who are serious about their craft. It's something that can be developed or triggered by an event (career threatening injury), but there has to be an underlying propensity for it. 

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Arizona plays Carolina tonight. If the Coyotes win they'll be just 2 points behind the Leafs. GP would then be even.

 

[Redleaf]

Tomorrow night and Saturday night should be real interesting games for tank nation. Lose both and this thing is really in high gear!!!!

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Carolina beat Arizona in the shootout last night. Hooray for 3-point games. Arizona getting the win would have been ideal but this keeps more options open I guess.

 

[Chev-boyar-sky]

Carolina beat Arizona in the shootout last night. Hooray for 3-point games. Arizona getting the win would have been ideal but this keeps more options open I guess.

Like a very outside shot at 3rd!

I fully expect the Leafs to win the next 2 games in convincing fashion and start a run of good hockey.

I'm fairly confident that we finish with the 7-9th overall pick which is a shame but we should still get a good player there.

 

[cabber24]

Carolina beat Arizona in the shootout last night. Hooray for 3-point games. Arizona getting the win would have been ideal but this keeps more options open I guess.

Like a very outside shot at 3rd!

I fully expect the Leafs to win the next 2 games in convincing fashion and start a run of good hockey.

I'm fairly confident that we finish with the 7-9th overall pick which is a shame but we should still get a good player there.

No optimism allowed in this thread, they will not win either games, and there will not be any "run of good hockey". Tank Nation is as strong as it has ever been and we have just the right team to pull it off, a perfect mix of dysfunction, skill, leadership, and poop.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Carolina beat Arizona in the shootout last night. Hooray for 3-point games. Arizona getting the win would have been ideal but this keeps more options open I guess.

Like a very outside shot at 3rd!

I fully expect the Leafs to win the next 2 games in convincing fashion and start a run of good hockey.

I'm fairly confident that we finish with the 7-9th overall pick which is a shame but we should still get a good player there.

It wouldn't be surprising if they did.  The team isn't good but it also isn't this bad.  Of course trades could change that, but all these players won't stay offensively challenged for too much longer. 

And then I fully expect to see Kessel criticized for starting to score again.

 

[slapshot]

Carolina beat Arizona in the shootout last night. Hooray for 3-point games. Arizona getting the win would have been ideal but this keeps more options open I guess.

Like a very outside shot at 3rd!

I fully expect the Leafs to win the next 2 games in convincing fashion and start a run of good hockey.

I'm fairly confident that we finish with the 7-9th overall pick which is a shame but we should still get a good player there.

In usual Leafs fashion I would expect this to happen. But these are unusual times, and I think Shannan has other ideas. They are more likely to be sellers, thus gutting the team of a few players that will likely be filled by Marlies in hopes the slide continues and they get a top five pick, while seeing what some of the farmhands can do. I'd like to see the Leafs shed $10-15 mil in cap space, between the trade deadline and the draft.

 

[pmrules]

Carolina beat Arizona in the shootout last night. Hooray for 3-point games. Arizona getting the win would have been ideal but this keeps more options open I guess.

Like a very outside shot at 3rd!

I fully expect the Leafs to win the next 2 games in convincing fashion and start a run of good hockey.

I'm fairly confident that we finish with the 7-9th overall pick which is a shame but we should still get a good player there.

It wouldn't be surprising if they did.  The team isn't good but it also isn't this bad.  Of course trades could change that, but all these players won't stay offensively challenged for too much longer. 

And then I fully expect to see Kessel criticized for starting to score again.

Count me in!!! 

 

[Chris]

I think Kessel (and linemates) is in on the tank. How else do you explain the pathetic performance of the top line in the last game? It's all part of the plan...