Tank Nation UNITE!!!

[GhostofPotvin29]

As much as I'd love the picks I'd also love to keep Santorelli.  But I understand why it's worth it to move him.

26 ES points in 49 games for Vancouver last season.  24 ES points in 52 games for the Leafs this season.  He's a solid ES producer which is valuable.

 

[Chris]

This team would be much better off if it had a few more Santorelli's on the roster. Watching the game last night, I was struck by the contrast between him and Winnik, versus Kessel and JVR. No comparison in effort level. It looked like Kessel in particular had given up. Sloppy, half-hearted pass attempts, no offensive zone possession, few chances. Is he still injured? If not, there is no excuse for that type of performance. Same with JVR, he was just waving his stick at opponents instead of making a real physical effort to retrieve the puck.

At this point I'd rather keep Santorelli and trade Kessel...keep Santorelli around as a mentor to the younger players on the team (if he is interested in that role). Best option would be to trade him for something now, then resign during the summer, though I don't know how realistic that is.

 

[cabber24]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iZDSsUTU34#t=138

 

[herman]

This team would be much better off if it had a few more Santorelli's on the roster. Watching the game last night, I was struck by the contrast between him and Winnik, versus Kessel and JVR. No comparison in effort level. It looked like Kessel in particular had given up. Sloppy, half-hearted pass attempts, no offensive zone possession, few chances. Is he still injured? If not, there is no excuse for that type of performance. Same with JVR, he was just waving his stick at opponents instead of making a real physical effort to retrieve the puck.

At this point I'd rather keep Santorelli and trade Kessel...keep Santorelli around as a mentor to the younger players on the team (if he is interested in that role). Best option would be to trade him for something now, then resign during the summer, though I don't know how realistic that is.

Welcome to TMLFans, Chris!

Your scenario is my ideal outcome for Santorelli and Winnik. But if it doesn't happen that way and we get 2nd/3rd rd picks out of the deals, I'm okay with that too. Draft for similar personalities (Santorelli is a Roberts-lite) and our bottom six will do just fine.

 

[Capital Leaf]

What was the coach thinking???

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/jonathan-bernier-should-he-have-stayed-on-the-bench-1.2944242

 

[Fanatic]

I have not read the majority of this thread. Sorry if I cover anything already done by someone else. I find it hard to log in to this site much anymore. The Leafs are just too depressing.

As much as it concerns me to see guys like Bernier, Kadri, Gardiner and Rielly losing so much I confess to all out cheering for losses. I was unhappy last night when the Leafs took the lead and glad when they lost it again. Why? I have been a devoted fan for over 40 years and I do not see a better way out of this than to lose a great deal now in the short term and then do well in the draft.

In that regard, I hardly think I am alone. When the Leafs fired Carlyle it took them a day to announce Horachek. Why? People also found it strange that Horachek was put in place as they went out on a very tough western road trip. Why? Is it not at least possible that a guy like Nonis and Shanny see the same things that many of us do? By bringing in Horachek and stressing a more defensive style of play the Leafs have the opportunity to evaluate players and also free fall in the standings.

How low can they go? Less than 10 days ago I was talking with people about the bottom 5 and they all said that would never happen. Now look? Can they make it to the bottom 3?

I used to hold onto the hope that they might sign Stamkos in a year, make him the captain and build around him to be a solid team in 3 - 5 years. Stamkos is not coming. What hope is left really except to fall and fall hard. What if..... really, what if they won the draft lottery. Wow, wouldn't that be something. But beyond that kind of "out there" hope I find it pretty hard to be excited about the buds at all anymore.

 

[Chris]

Welcome to TMLFans, Chris!

Your scenario is my ideal outcome for Santorelli and Winnik. But if it doesn't happen that way and we get 2nd/3rd rd picks out of the deals, I'm okay with that too. Draft for similar personalities (Santorelli is a Roberts-lite) and our bottom six will do just fine.

Thanks...been reading here for a long time but finally signed up to post when Carlyle was fired.

I would have liked to see a full-out rebuild start when Burke arrived (just think how much further along in the process we'd be right now...5 years, right?) I'd like to see it now, unless...one exception, if there is a way to bring in a true number 1 center to elevate/complement Kessel's game without decimating the rest of the roster. People keep talking about O'Reilly, I haven't seen enough of him to have an opinion if he could be the one. All I know is, right now at least, when we don't have the puck, the Kessel line (JVR/Bozak/Kessel) is essentially playing a man or more down, since Kessel is completely ineffective as a checker...and the others aren't much better. I'd like to see if Kessel could be more effective with a stronger center.

Unfortunately I don't see that player in the system and don't know if we can draft one that would be able to play that role soon enough to take advantage of Kessel's "prime" years.

 

[caver]

What was the coach thinking???

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/jonathan-bernier-should-he-have-stayed-on-the-bench-1.2944242

It's the tail wagging the dog...again... ( remember Bernier was played against LA with an injured knee ) ... bad call by Horacek...

 

[cabber24]

. What if..... really, what if they won the draft lottery. Wow, wouldn't that be something. But beyond that kind of "out there" hope I find it pretty hard to be excited about the buds at all anymore.

It's their best chance at winning anything this year.

 

[hap_leaf]

This team would be much better off if it had a few more Santorelli's on the roster. Watching the game last night, I was struck by the contrast between him and Winnik, versus Kessel and JVR. No comparison in effort level. It looked like Kessel in particular had given up. Sloppy, half-hearted pass attempts, no offensive zone possession, few chances. Is he still injured? If not, there is no excuse for that type of performance. Same with JVR, he was just waving his stick at opponents instead of making a real physical effort to retrieve the puck.

Maybe.  But they used to say Sundin floated and that wasn't the case.  My point being that sometimes it is difficult to determine Kessel's desire because he can also lay low in the weeds and then spring on the attack.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

This team would be much better off if it had a few more Santorelli's on the roster. Watching the game last night, I was struck by the contrast between him and Winnik, versus Kessel and JVR. No comparison in effort level. It looked like Kessel in particular had given up. Sloppy, half-hearted pass attempts, no offensive zone possession, few chances. Is he still injured? If not, there is no excuse for that type of performance. Same with JVR, he was just waving his stick at opponents instead of making a real physical effort to retrieve the puck.

Maybe.  But they used to say Sundin floated and that wasn't the case.  My point being that sometimes it is difficult to determine Kessel's desire because he can also lay low in the weeds and then spring on the attack.

I also think a lot of time people use "playing poorly" and "not trying" interchangeably.  Pretty much whenever Kessel struggles he's criticized as not trying hard enough.

 

[Redleaf]

This team would be much better off if it had a few more Santorelli's on the roster. Watching the game last night, I was struck by the contrast between him and Winnik, versus Kessel and JVR. No comparison in effort level. It looked like Kessel in particular had given up. Sloppy, half-hearted pass attempts, no offensive zone possession, few chances. Is he still injured? If not, there is no excuse for that type of performance. Same with JVR, he was just waving his stick at opponents instead of making a real physical effort to retrieve the puck.

Maybe.  But they used to say Sundin floated and that wasn't the case.  My point being that sometimes it is difficult to determine Kessel's desire because he can also lay low in the weeds and then spring on the attack.

I also think a lot of time people use "playing poorly" and "not trying" interchangeably.  Pretty much whenever Kessel struggles he's criticized as not trying hard enough.

Body language can be pretty telling.

 

[Chris]

I also think a lot of time people use "playing poorly" and "not trying" interchangeably.  Pretty much whenever Kessel struggles he's criticized as not trying hard enough.

Well, I can only judge based on what I see on the ice. For argument's sake, I'll say Kessel is "struggling" (whatever that really means - injury, biorhythms, lack of interest, etc). Can the Leafs really afford to build their team around an $8 millon player who goes through slumps like this every year - where he scores 3 goals in 21 games (and contributes nothing else)?

Can his consistency be improved by bringing in a new center? Or maybe by moving out his buddy (Bozak)? If not, what is the point of having someone like him on the roster.

As for Sundin...I do remember him getting the "floating" tag at times. But, I can't remember his line essentially being hemmed into their own end on almost every shift game after game...even against the opponent's 4th line. It's been a few years, though.

 

[Kin]

Draft for similar personalities (Santorelli is a Roberts-lite) and our bottom six will do just fine.

So Tyler Biggs, Phillipe Paradis...tough guys?

 

[Redleaf]

. What if..... really, what if they won the draft lottery. Wow, wouldn't that be something. But beyond that kind of "out there" hope I find it pretty hard to be excited about the buds at all anymore.

It's their best chance at winning anything this year.

While were at it and just for fun, let's go into complete fantasy mode/child boards/whatever you want to call it....

The Leafs trade Phaneuf and a 2nd to LA for Richards & their 1st, Franson & Kadri go to Nashville for Jones, and Bozak & Gardiner to Avalanche for O'Reilly. They get 2 first rounders, one of them is McDavid.

Year ONE of the rebuild looks something like this..

Kessel- O'Reilly- JVR
Winnik-McDavid- Holland
Komarov-Santorelli-Clarkson
Nylander- Richards- Brown

Percy- Rielly
Jones- Polak
UFA/prospect- Robidas

Bernier
Reimer

Bob's your Uncle, I'm a Leaf fan again... ;D

 

[herman]

Draft for similar personalities (Santorelli is a Roberts-lite) and our bottom six will do just fine.

So Tyler Biggs, Phillipe Paradis...tough guys?

I don't see much of Santorelli in Tyler Biggs and Phillipe Paradis. He is a hard skating, hard working team player. Not the most skilled, but puts everything he has into doing his job. His other teammates have made fun of him for all the extra hours he puts into his stickwork along the boards, and quick turn cuts.

See Siegel's article from Nov 2014.

 

[Kin]

I don't see much of Santorelli in Tyler Biggs and Phillipe Paradis. He is a hard skating, hard working team player. Not the most skilled, but puts everything he has into doing his job. His other teammates have made fun of him for all the extra hours he puts into his stickwork along the boards, and quick turn cuts.

Ah. So where the Leafs have been goofing is drafting all of those guys who don't work hard.

 

[herman]

I don't see much of Santorelli in Tyler Biggs and Phillipe Paradis. He is a hard skating, hard working team player. Not the most skilled, but puts everything he has into doing his job. His other teammates have made fun of him for all the extra hours he puts into his stickwork along the boards, and quick turn cuts.

Ah. So where the Leafs have been goofing is drafting all of those guys who don't work hard.

And they had been drafting slowpokes.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

@NHLCanes

Jeff Skinner and Riley Nash may be healthy extras in Arizona, plus an update on #Canes goaltender Cam Ward

Tank game strong with these guys.

 

[Kin]

I don't see much of Santorelli in Tyler Biggs and Phillipe Paradis. He is a hard skating, hard working team player. Not the most skilled, but puts everything he has into doing his job. His other teammates have made fun of him for all the extra hours he puts into his stickwork along the boards, and quick turn cuts.

Ah. So where the Leafs have been goofing is drafting all of those guys who don't work hard.

And they had been drafting slowpokes.

Shame they didn't have anyone warning them off the slow, lazy guys.