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[Deebo]

An underrated misstep was not making the Kessel deal that was on the table at the 2009 draft.

Kadri/Kaberle for Kessel. Imagine we got Kessel and still were able to keep the first round picks from the 2010 and 2011 drafts.

Is that what Boston wanted or what the Leafs offered?

Apparently the story goes that it was Kaberle for Kessel. Burke thought Boston was including a 1st and Chiarelli thought Toronto was including the 1st.

And both were ready to accept the deal as they thought it was laid out.

 

[Boston Leaf]

I maintain if one trade was the absolute worst for the team long term, it was Rask for Raycroft.  If I absolutely had to pick one.

That is correct. In terms of setting the team back for years, off the top of my head, the worst trades I've witnessed in my career as a leafs fan are:

1. a 1st round pick for Tom Kurvers
2. Rask for Raycroft
3. Steen and Colaiacovo for jackass

Even though he was up there in age. I still never got over Sittler for Rich Costello...

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Apparently the story goes that it was Kaberle for Kessel. Burke thought Boston was including a 1st and Chiarelli thought Toronto was including the 1st.

And both were ready to accept the deal as they thought it was laid out.

Love that story. How the heck did Burke think he was getting Kessel and a (late) 1st for Kaberle.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Apparently the story goes that it was Kaberle for Kessel. Burke thought Boston was including a 1st and Chiarelli thought Toronto was including the 1st.

And both were ready to accept the deal as they thought it was laid out.

Love that story. How the heck did Burke think he was getting Kessel and a (late) 1st for Kaberle.

I think it's more far-fetched looking now than at the time considering 2 years later Kaberle got the Leafs Colborne, a (late) 1st round pick and a 2nd round pick as basically a rental.

 

[bustaheims]

Love that story. How the heck did Burke think he was getting Kessel and a (late) 1st for Kaberle.

It was two full seasons of Kaberle at a very reasonable $4.25M per for a young, un-signed Kessel, who many thought saw his production boosted by playing with Marc Savard, and was seen as a pure sniper rather than the all-around quality offensive talent we see now. Throw in the supposed potential for a contentious negotiation and the fact the Kessel had just undergone shoulder surgery, and, well, there's your answer.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Love that story. How the heck did Burke think he was getting Kessel and a (late) 1st for Kaberle.

It was two full seasons of Kaberle at a very reasonable $4.25M per for a young, un-signed Kessel, who many thought saw his production boosted by playing with Marc Savard, and was seen as a pure sniper rather than the all-around quality offensive talent we see now. Throw in the supposed potential for a contentious negotiation and the fact the Kessel had just undergone shoulder surgery, and, well, there's your answer.

To add to that, Kaberle was also in the midst of a stretch of 4 out of 5 seasons where he was top 10 in points for D, and if he had played all of 2010-11 with Toronto he likely would have made it 5 of 6 at his Leafs' scoring pace.  He was a valuable player at that time.

 

[brothert]

Buying out Grabovski was ffffoooooking nuts!  Both at the time and now!  The one thing you could not say about him was that he lacked "compete level" or "accountability"  I still can't believe we picked Bozak over him, essentially because Kessel was his roommate (In my mind).

 

[pmrules]

Love that story. How the heck did Burke think he was getting Kessel and a (late) 1st for Kaberle.

It was two full seasons of Kaberle at a very reasonable $4.25M per for a young, un-signed Kessel, who many thought saw his production boosted by playing with Marc Savard, and was seen as a pure sniper rather than the all-around quality offensive talent we see now. Throw in the supposed potential for a contentious negotiation and the fact the Kessel had just undergone shoulder surgery, and, well, there's your answer.

To add to that, Kaberle was also in the midst of a stretch of 4 out of 5 seasons where he was top 10 in points for D, and if he had played all of 2010-11 with Toronto he likely would have made it 5 of 6 at his Leafs' scoring pace.  He was a valuable player at that time.

Another postiive point for selling your assets at their highest level if you are not a legit contender.

Ahem...Cody Franson.

 

[LuncheonMeat]

Losing as many of the next 16 games is important, we don't want management to think there is any chance of a playoff spot going into the trade deadline.

Yeah, though, they're already 9 points out, so, even if they manage to keep pace with the teams ahead of them, that's still a big enough gap to put the team into sell mode. Really, though, the decision to sell or not should be made much earlier - possibly as early as this weekend (teams usually have front office meetings during the All Star break for that purpose). The groundwork for deadline day deal is often laid weeks before the trades go down, so, unless they Leafs have a significant winning streak out of the break, they're going to be in a position where they should be selling.

9 points from a playoff spot (10, really), and only 5 points from picking top 5.  I know what I'm hoping for, and what's a much more reasonable expectation for this team.

I'm guessing at this point Shanahan has seen enough and has a pretty firm idea of what needs to happen.  And a better performance leading up to the deadline won't change that.

 

[LuncheonMeat]

It was a simple trade, but the Perrault for a 2nd trade bugged me.  It was a move that continued to signal a quick fix. 

Was just reminded it turned out to be Roman Josi.  :-X

Didn't Perrault have a bad shoulder at that point as well?  Maybe I'm remembering that wrong, but that trade didn't sit well with me either.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I'm guessing at this point Shanahan has seen enough and has a pretty firm idea of what needs to happen.  And a better performance leading up to the deadline won't change that.

I'm cautiously optimistic that he's looking at process over results at this point.  He's certainly surrounded himself with people who think that way, and firing Carlyle and talking about the shots for/against indicate he has a bigger picture in mind.

 

[bustaheims]

I'm guessing at this point Shanahan has seen enough and has a pretty firm idea of what needs to happen.  And a better performance leading up to the deadline won't change that.

I imagine so. A real significant win streak might lead to them not selling off pieces (and, by that, I mean 8+ games coming right out of the break), but that's about it.

 

[Lynx]

An underrated misstep was not making the Kessel deal that was on the table at the 2009 draft.

Kadri/Kaberle for Kessel. Imagine we got Kessel and still were able to keep the first round picks from the 2010 and 2011 drafts.

Is that what Boston wanted or what the Leafs offered?

Apparently the story goes that it was Kaberle for Kessel. Burke thought Boston was including a 1st and Chiarelli thought Toronto was including the 1st.

And both were ready to accept the deal as they thought it was laid out.

I've always wondered if they could have kept negotiating and agreed to both include their first rounders (ie. Kessel and Boston's first for Kaberle and Toronto's first).

I'm pretty sure Ryan O'Reilly was taken a few picks after Boston's. Not that the Leafs would have taken him of course.

 

[ZBBM]

This thread has taken a dark, sad, and depressing turn.

The facts surrounding the Leafs have a way of doing that.

 

[Deebo]

An underrated misstep was not making the Kessel deal that was on the table at the 2009 draft.

Kadri/Kaberle for Kessel. Imagine we got Kessel and still were able to keep the first round picks from the 2010 and 2011 drafts.

Is that what Boston wanted or what the Leafs offered?

Apparently the story goes that it was Kaberle for Kessel. Burke thought Boston was including a 1st and Chiarelli thought Toronto was including the 1st.

And both were ready to accept the deal as they thought it was laid out.

I've always wondered if they could have kept negotiating and agreed to both include their first rounders (ie. Kessel and Boston's first for Kaberle and Toronto's first).

I'm pretty sure Ryan O'Reilly was taken a few picks after Boston's. Not that the Leafs would have taken him of course.

They probably would have taken Phillippe Paradis.

 

[ZBBM]

I'm guessing at this point Shanahan has seen enough and has a pretty firm idea of what needs to happen.  And a better performance leading up to the deadline won't change that.

I'm cautiously optimistic that he's looking at process over results at this point.  He's certainly surrounded himself with people who think that way, and firing Carlyle and talking about the shots for/against indicate he has a bigger picture in mind.

I hope so, but I don't trust Shanahan yet.  Siegel rightly called him out for re-signing Carlyle.  Even at the point it should have been obvious that he was the wrong guy to go forward with.  Just pissed money down the drain and wasted another season "assessing" the obvious.

 

[Leaflifer]

The Leafs could have reversed their bad fortune had they traded MaCabe at his peak (for picks) instead of resigning him. He was pretty highly rated for the two seasons before his contract was renegotiated by JFJ.

The Leafs could have netted 2 or 3 prospects for him.

Of everything mentioned, that's the one that stung me the most. The timing would have been perfect.

 

[Deebo]

Erat for Forsberg reminds me of the Rask for Raycroft deal.

 

[LuncheonMeat]

This thread has taken a dark, sad, and depressing turn.

The facts surrounding the Leafs have a way of doing that.

Funny, I've always looked at the 80s, and the Ballard years in general, and think things really aren't that bad right now.  But as this train wreck of a franchise continues to plumb the depths of futility, it's becoming a lot harder to convince myself that those years were so much worse than the current ones (just a different kind of bad).

The Leafs barely made the playoffs in 1980, finishing five games below .500. They would not post a winning record again until 1992?93, going a franchise-record 13 consecutive seasons without a winning record. The low point came in 1984?85, when the Leafs finished the season with the worst record in the league, 32 games below .500.

 

[Highlander]

I don't think resigning Carlyle was a mistake, the Leafs hand out golden parachutes and I think it was part of a plan.  He was the guy who brought in Horachuck and Spott and ousted Randy's crew.  If he had dumped Randy before the season started and what is happening to Horachuck now happened at the beginning of the season then the pundents (including us) would have been calling for Horachecks head and then we would have changed 2 head coaches in matter of months. Randy bought some time for Shanaplan to see where the team was at and what they could do with Horachuck, knowing full well that Horachuck has a half season no matter how many games they lose.  At the end of the season an opportuntiy to change interem for full time again.