The Brian Burke Thread

[skrackle]

I remember some exciting Leafs hockey of the Sittler era in my youth, but those Leafs were no match for the mighty Habs or the Flyers.

It was only two years during which Gilmour had his greatest impact with the Leafs and that's almost 20 years ago now. Wow. I thought the Leafs of '93 might have been a team of destiny, but no.

The Quinn/Sundin years produced some pretty good Leafs hockey. Some 100 point teams and at least in the ballpark of contending. Those teams really only had Ottawa's number though, with those 4 series wins. The only other teams they beat were Philly and the Islanders, both in the 1st round.

A 100 point team with a shot at contending seems like a far off dream for the Leafs right now. And of course, everything's changed since those days. There's no chance now of 'buying a Cup' if there ever was.

It does seem though, that whoever has run the Leafs through the years can't quite rid themselves of the notion that there's some shortcut to success. Burke brought that attitude in, much to my dismay. To be fair to him, he is building up the youth in the system to a greater degree than any Leafs GM I recall.

I hope that this season was enough of a wake up call for him to abandon the quick fix strategy. Burke tends to contradict himself at times, so while taking what he says with a grain of salt, I'm interested in what he's going to do this summer.

 

[bustaheims]

I thought Steen and Stajan were excellent picks.  They were taken very late in their rounds yet are better then half the other players, some who never played a game in the NHL.

Sure, but, with slightly better scouting/choices, Stajan could have been Hudler - someone who might still be on the team not struggling to be more than a 4th liner for a mediocre Calgary Flames - Steen could have been Ward - which could have massively altered the course of events for the team over the next few seasons (no Rask for Raycroft, not Toskala trade, etc).

 

[Rebel_1812]

Remember when Burke sent Orr down he said hockey had changed and there was no need for him anymore.  I think with the way the playoffs are going we need to call Orr back up for next year.

 

[caver]

Whatever style the latest Stanley Cup winner played, some teams try to mimic. Boston played tough and now it's war on ice.

 

[Corn Flake]

Remember when Burke sent Orr down he said hockey had changed and there was no need for him anymore.  I think with the way the playoffs are going we need to call Orr back up for next year.

That isn't quite what he said.  here are the quotes: http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/article/1111058--brian-burke-troubled-by-state-of-nhl-after-demoting-colton-orr

I don't think the Leafs need Orr back - they need to get tougher but not goon tough.  The teams out there going at it aren't doing it with a bunch of goons, they are doing it with players who can play and are tough and obviously will fight if needed. 

 

[Bullfrog]

Some people forget, the Leafs were doing pretty good for years.  Although the Habs won the Cup in '93, I wouldn't be surprised if it were the Leafs who won the most playoff rounds since.   No decent picks = no decent prospects in system.  Then add JFJ, who did a terrible job.  Then to top it off, add a salary cap to the system.  I'd dare to say, it was way too optimistic to think the Leafs would be doing well by now.  I predicted they'd stink until Tucker's buy-out expires... and that hasn't failed me yet.

This has been conveniently forgotten by everyone who likes to point out that the Leafs have sucked for 45 years.

Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing.

Bottom line: we have not won in 45 years.

All the rest is unimportant, particularly after 45 years. Put on "rose coloured glasses" if you wish, but don't criticize those of us who choose not to do so.

This is hockey, not grenades or horseshoes, so close does not count -- not that we were all that close anyway.

Unless you are a shareholder of MLSE, playing two or more rounds of the playoffs is not winning.

Still, I think you can agree watching them win two rounds of playoffs would be more enjoyable than not watching them play in the playoffs at all.

 

[princedpw]

I thought Steen and Stajan were excellent picks.  They were taken very late in their rounds yet are better then half the other players, some who never played a game in the NHL.

Sure, but, with slightly better scouting/choices, Stajan could have been Hudler - someone who might still be on the team not struggling to be more than a 4th liner for a mediocre Calgary Flames - Steen could have been Ward - which could have massively altered the course of events for the team over the next few seasons (no Rask for Raycroft, not Toskala trade, etc).

Busta, I think you ask too much of a scouting staff if you are disappointed with the relative success of the Steen/Stajan picks.  If all picks the leafs made were as relatively good (ie, taking the positions of the picks in to account), the leafs would very rapidly develop into a great team.  A guy like Schenn, picked 5th overall instead of 27th, would turn out an all star like Karlsson or Eberle.  Likewise Kadri.

 

[bustaheims]

Busta, I think you ask too much of a scouting staff if you are disappointed with the relative success of the Steen/Stajan picks.  If all picks the leafs made were as relatively good (ie, taking the positions of the picks in to account), the leafs would very rapidly develop into a great team.  A guy like Schenn, picked 5th overall instead of 27th, would turn out an all star like Karlsson or Eberle.  Likewise Kadri.

No, I understand completely the nature of scouting. It was more a response to a comment that not having high picks means no quality prospects, which is just malarky. The reason the Leafs had few quality prospects was because of trading picks and not making the right choices at the draft table (which is something all teams are obviously guilty of most of the time).

 

[Tigger]

Some people forget, the Leafs were doing pretty good for years.  Although the Habs won the Cup in '93, I wouldn't be surprised if it were the Leafs who won the most playoff rounds since.   No decent picks = no decent prospects in system.  Then add JFJ, who did a terrible job.  Then to top it off, add a salary cap to the system.  I'd dare to say, it was way too optimistic to think the Leafs would be doing well by now.  I predicted they'd stink until Tucker's buy-out expires... and that hasn't failed me yet.

This has been conveniently forgotten by everyone who likes to point out that the Leafs have sucked for 45 years.

Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing.

Bottom line: we have not won in 45 years.

All the rest is unimportant, particularly after 45 years. Put on "rose coloured glasses" if you wish, but don't criticize those of us who choose not to do so.

This is hockey, not grenades or horseshoes, so close does not count -- not that we were all that close anyway.

Unless you are a shareholder of MLSE, playing two or more rounds of the playoffs is not winning.

Still, I think you can agree watching them win two rounds of playoffs would be more enjoyable than not watching them play in the playoffs at all.

No no, enjoying hockey only matters if you win the cup, duh.

 

[AtomicMapleLeaf]

I remember some exciting Leafs hockey of the Sittler era in my youth, but those Leafs were no match for the mighty Habs or the Flyers.

It was only two years during which Gilmour had his greatest impact with the Leafs and that's almost 20 years ago now. Wow. I thought the Leafs of '93 might have been a team of destiny, but no.

The Quinn/Sundin years produced some pretty good Leafs hockey. Some 100 point teams and at least in the ballpark of contending. Those teams really only had Ottawa's number though, with those 4 series wins. The only other teams they beat were Philly and the Islanders, both in the 1st round.

A 100 point team with a shot at contending seems like a far off dream for the Leafs right now. And of course, everything's changed since those days. There's no chance now of 'buying a Cup' if there ever was.

It does seem though, that whoever has run the Leafs through the years can't quite rid themselves of the notion that there's some shortcut to success. Burke brought that attitude in, much to my dismay. To be fair to him, he is building up the youth in the system to a greater degree than any Leafs GM I recall.

I hope that this season was enough of a wake up call for him to abandon the quick fix strategy. Burke tends to contradict himself at times, so while taking what he says with a grain of salt, I'm interested in what he's going to do this summer.

Great post, I have the same memories and I hope BB or whoever is the next GM builds from within.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Toronto Maple Leafs general manager Brian Burke does not agree with the negativity directed towards the suspensions and violence that have taken up the headlines during the Stanley Cup playoffs.

Burke told USA Today's Kevin Allen on Wednesday that the media's focus on the incidents that have happened on the ice are taking away from the 'third-round intensity' and drama of the first-round of the postseason.

"This is like people complaining about the rain at Woodstock," Burke told USA Today. "Yes, there was lots of mud, but it was the greatest music gathering in history."

NHL disciplinarian Brendan Shanahan has handed out eight suspensions during the first seven days of postseason games. Phoenix Coyotes forward Raffi Torres, who awaits a hearing with Shanahan on Friday after his hit on Chicago's Marian Hossa, was suspended indefinitely on Wednesday.

"I hope we continue to nail the people who are crossing the line," Burke told USA Today. "But this is a small number of incidents, and it's unfortunate that non-hockey media is focusing on that. But what I see is great hockey. It's awesome."

The postseason has also been marked by nasty play in almost every series. Carl Hagelin of the New York Rangers, Senators defenceman Matt Carkner, Pittsburgh's James Neal and Arron Asham, Washington Capitals star centre Nicklas Backstrom, Chicago Blackhawks rookie Andrew Shaw and Byron Bitz of the Vancouver Canucks have all been handed suspensions since the playoffs started last Wednesday.

Burke pointed out that parity and the natural rivalries between teams is a factor to the increase of bad behaviour.

"Nine times of 10 when players cross the line, it's emotional," Burke explained to USA Today. "It's not cognitive. (Washington's Nicklas) Backstrom didn't say the other night, I'm going to go in and cross-check this guy. Aaron Asham didn't say to himself. I'm going to cross-check Brayden Schenn in the throat. It's adrenaline. It's reaction."

Burke also has no issue with the work Shanahan has done assessing incidents and handing out his decisions. "You can't make people happy, so just do the job," Burke said. "And I think Brendan is doing that. It's impossible for fans to be rationale at this time of year. It's impossible for Detroit fans not to be outraged when Shea Weber wasn't suspended (for slamming Henrik Zetterberg's head into the glass). But I don't think he should have been."

 

[Highlander]

Was anyone really complaining when the Broad Street Bullies where beating the shit out of everyone?  We have become so politically correct that even Hockey will be completely sanitized. No, I do not believe in head-shots outside of a fight but tough hockey has to have some leeway. Like good hard hip checks like Brian Glennie used to hand out about 6 times a game. Where did that go?

 

[Damian]

Even though they lost tonight, any 2 of Coburn, Simmonds or Hartnell..... make it happen BB

 

[Highlander]

Schenn, Komi, Codi Franson and a 2nd for Hartnell

 

[Tigger]

Schenn, Komi, Codi Franson and a 2nd for Hartnell

Wow.

...suck it Phaneuf...

 

[Corn Flake]

Schenn, Komi, Codi Franson and a 2nd for Hartnell

Wow.

...suck it Phaneuf...

Save on old checking wingers, buy Ryan Malone instead.

 

[Tigger]

Schenn, Komi, Codi Franson and a 2nd for Hartnell

Wow.

...suck it Phaneuf...

Save on old checking wingers, buy Ryan Malone instead.

I know what you're saying but I'm a bit concerned with his health and 3 more years on that contract. He's showing signs of breaking down more and more.

He might come cheap and has been putting up decent ppg so that's in the plus column.

 

[Corn Flake]

Schenn, Komi, Codi Franson and a 2nd for Hartnell

Wow.

...suck it Phaneuf...

Save on old checking wingers, buy Ryan Malone instead.

I know what you're saying but I'm a bit concerned with his health and 3 more years on that contract. He's showing signs of breaking down more and more.

He might come cheap and has been putting up decent ppg so that's in the plus column.

I don't really think Malone is the right guy to go after, given the PF age wall is right in front of him, but just suggested it as a possibly available version of Hartnell, who I doubt could be obtained. 

Still think there are other younger options that can be molded into that player, like Anthony Stewart.

Still say Clowe is the guy to be checking in on. Sharks are going to make big changes.

 

[proteus2000]

Schenn, Komi, Codi Franson and a 2nd for Hartnell

Wow.

...suck it Phaneuf...

Save on old checking wingers, buy Ryan Malone instead.

I know what you're saying but I'm a bit concerned with his health and 3 more years on that contract. He's showing signs of breaking down more and more.

He might come cheap and has been putting up decent ppg so that's in the plus column.

I don't really think Malone is the right guy to go after, given the PF age wall is right in front of him, but just suggested it as a possibly available version of Hartnell, who I doubt could be obtained. 

Still think there are other younger options that can be molded into that player, like Anthony Stewart.

Still say Clowe is the guy to be checking in on. Sharks are going to make big changes.

Phily will surely not part with Hartnell, especially after a career yr...TB might not mind alleviating some cap space and trade Malone, but Malone has a no movement clause until the end of 2013, and a limited NTC after. Clowe is a more attractive possibility, but I struggle to see what of value we could give up for him.

For a guy that espouses a big team, Burke is in a world of hurt in getting that type of squad put together. Hopefully some of the guys he drafted who fit that type of player and a couple of prospects he traded for pan out...that is their best hope, not trading for some 32 year old with 5 yrs remaining on a contract.

 

[skrackle]

For a guy that espouses a big team, Burke is in a world of hurt in getting that type of squad put together. Hopefully some of the guys he drafted who fit that type of player and a couple of prospects he traded for pan out...that is their best hope, not trading for some 32 year old with 5 yrs remaining on a contract.

I agree, it's going to take time. You have to play the waiting game and see if players like Tyler Biggs among others, will be effective NHLers.

One point I agree on with Burke is that he says he's not trading youth for veterans. He's harped on this in the media several times, and I hope he sticks to it. It is not cost-effective to try and fill the many holes on the Leafs through trades or UFA signings alone. I disagree with Burke though, when he talks about the 1st rounders on the Leafs right now. I remember similar talk about the Phoenix Coyotes of 10 or so years ago. I realize Burke needs some selling points about the current Leafs, but there are likely good reasons why some of these players aren't with the teams that drafted them.

The way forward for the Leafs is to draft and develop most of their core. I think you would not only be in a solid position cap-wise, but it may address the issue of performance under pressure in Toronto.

If young players get gradually conditioned to playing in the Toronto environment, they should tend to not think much of it after a while. In contrast, the big UFA signings or traded for players are usually put on a pedestal for a short time, until their heads are called for.

Of course, the key trades and signings will play a big part, but I think you first need a team that can win without these players.