The Unofficial Fire Ron Wilson/Ron Wilson is the Greatest Thread

[BlueWhiteBlood]

That's gotta be AW...

That's 'He Who Shall Not Be Named', thank you very much.

*shudders*

 

[cw]

Same for the PK.  As I mentioned prior, is it the wrong set of players or is it that they don't know how to execute?  How much blame does one lay on the coaching staff for this?

Now a number of these guys were only up for a cup of coffee and a bunch didn't turn out but Wilson has dressed 8 different goalies,  23 different dmen and about 50 different forwards - 81 players over the last four years. And they've been unable to get out of the basement on the PK.

When it's as poor as it's been and been that way for most of four years, it's really hard for me to entirely exonerate the coaching.

 

[princedpw]

Same for the PK.  As I mentioned prior, is it the wrong set of players or is it that they don't know how to execute?  How much blame does one lay on the coaching staff for this?

Now a number of these guys were only up for a cup of coffee and a bunch didn't turn out but Wilson has dressed 8 different goalies,  23 different dmen and about 50 different forwards - 81 players over the last four years. And they've been unable to get out of the basement on the PK.

When it's as poor as it's been and been that way for most of four years, it's really hard for me to entirely exonerate the coaching.

But the coaches in charge of the PK changed this year, no?

I think it is a combination of the defense and the goaltenders.  We may have had many goaltenders, but we haven't had many good ones aside from the Reimer stretch last year.

But really, I don't know what it is.

 

[ZBBM]

With us sliding toward being out of a playoff spot, the next 2 weeks are shaping up as critical for Wilson.  If the team should tailspin then Burke will be sorely tempted, and mightily pressured, to finally make a move.  If he doesn't cotton to Eakins, there are several credible candidates out there.

Having said that, I don't think the team will crash and burn.  But we are drifting downward, and it looks like once again we will be on the bubble.  In other words, back to expectations at the start of the season.

 

[jdh1]

Same for the PK.  As I mentioned prior, is it the wrong set of players or is it that they don't know how to execute?  How much blame does one lay on the coaching staff for this?

Now a number of these guys were only up for a cup of coffee and a bunch didn't turn out but Wilson has dressed 8 different goalies,  23 different dmen and about 50 different forwards - 81 players over the last four years. And they've been unable to get out of the basement on the PK.

When it's as poor as it's been and been that way for most of four years, it's really hard for me to entirely exonerate the coaching.

But the coaches in charge of the PK changed this year, no?

I think it is a combination of the defense and the goaltenders.  We may have had many goaltenders, but we haven't had many good ones aside from the Reimer stretch last year.

But really, I don't know what it is.

The one thing that I have seemed to notice is when they are short a man and killing off a penalty the two forwards don't pressure the point men enough
,but instead fall back and they form a too small a 4 man box...and that allows the opposing teams point men to come closer to our goalie for their slap shot or gives them more room to pass it off.

 

[moon111]

I've alway heard of the 'system' the Leafs want to play.  Probably would work really good for the `84 Oilers.
I'm all for getting rid of Ron Wilson, but as long as they change the system.  It pisses me off to no end to see the Goals Against in the bottom six again.  What would Wilson be doing if it weren't for Kessel?

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

What would Wilson be doing if it weren't for Kessel?

Most teams (other than maybe the elites who have multiple star offensive players) would have a problem taking their top scorer out of the lineup, let alone if he was the league leader.  Pittsburgh is certainly better with Crosby than without.

I'm sure Philly will feel some effect of Giroux being out of the lineup.

 

[Zee]

With us sliding toward being out of a playoff spot, the next 2 weeks are shaping up as critical for Wilson.  If the team should tailspin then Burke will be sorely tempted, and mightily pressured, to finally make a move.  If he doesn't cotton to Eakins, there are several credible candidates out there.

Having said that, I don't think the team will crash and burn.  But we are drifting downward, and it looks like once again we will be on the bubble.  In other words, back to expectations at the start of the season.

Since the 7-2-1 start, Leafs have only won 9 out of 22 games. Not good at all. 9-11-2.

 

[cw]

With us sliding toward being out of a playoff spot, the next 2 weeks are shaping up as critical for Wilson.  If the team should tailspin then Burke will be sorely tempted, and mightily pressured, to finally make a move.  If he doesn't cotton to Eakins, there are several credible candidates out there.

Having said that, I don't think the team will crash and burn.  But we are drifting downward, and it looks like once again we will be on the bubble.  In other words, back to expectations at the start of the season.

Since the 7-2-1 start, Leafs have only won 9 out of 22 games. Not good at all. 9-11-2.

Even looking at their complete season to date, 16-13-3 is a .547 pts win% pace which projects to slightly less than 90 pts. Only one year since the lockout has playoffs been made with less than 90 pts.

The benefits of their good start is largely gone. They're truly on the bubble now.

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

I've been a Wilson defender all along.  Leafs have 6 games to close out the calendar year, all are winnable games.  If Wilson cannot get this team to step up in the next 6 games and win at least 4, he has got to go. 

 

[Zee]

With us sliding toward being out of a playoff spot, the next 2 weeks are shaping up as critical for Wilson.  If the team should tailspin then Burke will be sorely tempted, and mightily pressured, to finally make a move.  If he doesn't cotton to Eakins, there are several credible candidates out there.

Having said that, I don't think the team will crash and burn.  But we are drifting downward, and it looks like once again we will be on the bubble.  In other words, back to expectations at the start of the season.

Since the 7-2-1 start, Leafs have only won 9 out of 22 games. Not good at all. 9-11-2.

Even looking at their complete season to date, 16-13-3 is a .547 pts win% pace which projects to slightly less than 90 pts. Only one year since the lockout has playoffs been made with less than 90 pts.

The benefits of their good start is largely gone. They're truly on the bubble now.

On the flipside though, as bad as the last little while has been, Leafs still sit 8th. A solid 10 game run of 6-7 wins would put them back up into a decent spot. Quite the change from last season where the Leafs played really well from Jan 1st onward and would never crack the top 8. At least this season it's still attainable with a solid run.

 

[Optimus Reimer]

With us sliding toward being out of a playoff spot, the next 2 weeks are shaping up as critical for Wilson.  If the team should tailspin then Burke will be sorely tempted, and mightily pressured, to finally make a move.  If he doesn't cotton to Eakins, there are several credible candidates out there.

Having said that, I don't think the team will crash and burn.  But we are drifting downward, and it looks like once again we will be on the bubble.  In other words, back to expectations at the start of the season.

Since the 7-2-1 start, Leafs have only won 9 out of 22 games. Not good at all. 9-11-2.

Even looking at their complete season to date, 16-13-3 is a .547 pts win% pace which projects to slightly less than 90 pts. Only one year since the lockout has playoffs been made with less than 90 pts.

The benefits of their good start is largely gone. They're truly on the bubble now.

On the flipside though, as bad as the last little while has been, Leafs still sit 8th. A solid 10 game run of 6-7 wins would put them back up into a decent spot. Quite the change from last season where the Leafs played really well from Jan 1st onward and would never crack the top 8. At least this season it's still attainable with a solid run.

It would be pretty hard right now for the Leafs to get 6 or 7 wins in the next 10 games unless there is a coaching change.  The PK and defensive coverage do not exist, and the players have no energy, drive or passion. 

The Leafs had a good start, went on a bit of a slump, but right after the slump, they had a really good road trip.  They were playing tougher on defence and things looked promising.  Since then, they got away from that style of play.  Either RW is gassed now, or the Leafs will end up out of the playoff picture and that is a shame because they have the players that the team should finish 4th to 7th in the Eastern Conference. 

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

the players have no energy, drive or passion.

I don't see that at all.

 

[Zee]

With us sliding toward being out of a playoff spot, the next 2 weeks are shaping up as critical for Wilson.  If the team should tailspin then Burke will be sorely tempted, and mightily pressured, to finally make a move.  If he doesn't cotton to Eakins, there are several credible candidates out there.

Having said that, I don't think the team will crash and burn.  But we are drifting downward, and it looks like once again we will be on the bubble.  In other words, back to expectations at the start of the season.

Since the 7-2-1 start, Leafs have only won 9 out of 22 games. Not good at all. 9-11-2.

Even looking at their complete season to date, 16-13-3 is a .547 pts win% pace which projects to slightly less than 90 pts. Only one year since the lockout has playoffs been made with less than 90 pts.

The benefits of their good start is largely gone. They're truly on the bubble now.

On the flipside though, as bad as the last little while has been, Leafs still sit 8th. A solid 10 game run of 6-7 wins would put them back up into a decent spot. Quite the change from last season where the Leafs played really well from Jan 1st onward and would never crack the top 8. At least this season it's still attainable with a solid run.

It would be pretty hard right now for the Leafs to get 6 or 7 wins in the next 10 games unless there is a coaching change.  The PK and defensive coverage do not exist, and the players have no energy, drive or passion. 

The Leafs had a good start, went on a bit of a slump, but right after the slump, they had a really good road trip.  They were playing tougher on defence and things looked promising.  Since then, they got away from that style of play.  Either RW is gassed now, or the Leafs will end up out of the playoff picture and that is a shame because they have the players that the team should finish 4th to 7th in the Eastern Conference.

I don't think it's hard for the Leafs to get on a roll.  What's been missing so far this season is stellar goaltending.  If one of the 2 guys can get hot similar to what Reimer did Jan 1st onward, Leafs can get confidence from that and get on a roll. 

 

[cw]

the players have no energy, drive or passion.

I don't see that at all.

Me neither.

For this group, I'd have to say one redeeming thing they don't have is "quit". They never seem to give up when they're down a goal or two and often can score a goal to get back into it. It doesn't always bear fruit and they can give up a goal the other way with a risky turnover but they're at least trying.

 

[lc9]

I don't see that at all.

I see it every game, PK is more about who wants it more.  How many times do I need to see Scheen wave his stick at someone near the half boards and then get beat to the net.

Defense and PK have been, and will always be about how much pride and energy a team has.  These players aren't playing for RW, they aren't lying down to block shots to giving up their body to get the puck out of the zone.

Wilson should be embarrassed by the way the PK and defense perform.  In my opinion, it is without doubt a reflection of how well the players respond to Wilson, and its evident that they don't at all.  The only constant for our PK for the past 4 years is Ron Wilson, different players, different coaches, he is the one that refuses to fix the problem.

 

[lc9]

Me neither.

For this group, I'd have to say one redeeming thing they don't have is "quit". They never seem to give up when they're down a goal or two and often can score a goal to get back into it.

You have to be able to separate trying hard and desperation.  It is always easier for players to look lively in the offensive end, that's where big paychecks are made (for a lot of players).  There is quite a bit of "quit" in the defensive end with this team. 

 

[cw]

Me neither.

For this group, I'd have to say one redeeming thing they don't have is "quit". They never seem to give up when they're down a goal or two and often can score a goal to get back into it.

You have to be able to separate trying hard and desperation.  It is always easier for players to look lively in the offensive end, that's where big paychecks are made (for a lot of players).  There is quite a bit of "quit" in the defensive end with this team.

I really don't think players can turn it on and off depending on which zone they're in. "Oh, I'm in the D zone so I'll stop trying and caring now until someone gets me the puck in the offensive zone"

To me, their defensive troubles seem closer to a lack of knowing how to do so as a team, confusion, bad decisions in coverage yanking themselves out of position, lack of confidence/deer in the headlights syndrome/fear of making a mistake, poor execution, etc. I don't see that as a lack of desire to try or a lack of passion. Confused teams lacking confidence can look like they're not making an effort but it isn't because they don't care or won't make the effort. The uncertainty, confusion or lack of confidence breeds things like hesitation and leaves them standing around because they're not sure what to do and fear making a mistake.

 

[ZBBM]

lc9, I think you overstate it when you say they have no passion or energy.  They display it most every game -- and they are in most every game.

I do think, though, that there's a kernel of truth in what you say.  I am a longtime Wilson detractor, but all that aside I truly do believe they don't play as hard for him as they might.  The failure to get the puck out against VAN was due in part to the Canucks' skill (the Sedin "sisters"  : as some would have it, were dominant) but also due to our not winning battles along the boards.  That's sheer determination and I don't think they have it.  Would they, for another coach?  It would be an interesting experiment, wouldn't it? 

 

[Zee]

lc9, I think you overstate it when you say they have no passion or energy.  They display it most every game -- and they are in most every game.

I do think, though, that there's a kernel of truth in what you say.  I am a longtime Wilson detractor, but all that aside I truly do believe they don't play as hard for him as they might.  The failure to get the puck out against VAN was due in part to the Canucks' skill (the Sedin "sisters"  : as some would have it, were dominant) but also due to our not winning battles along the boards.  That's sheer determination and I don't think they have it.  Would they, for another coach?  It would be an interesting experiment, wouldn't it? 

Well, it's December 19th, we're stuck with Wilson through the holidays at the very least.  There's no way in hell Burke cans him around this time so we might as well enjoy the mini break I suppose.