This sucks - Burke is fiddling while Rome burns

[Kin]

I tend to agree with you.  You didn't hear a peep out of him when he was in Anaheim regarding transactions other than the famous offer sheet for Penner.  He just needs to learn to keep to himself and let his actions speak for itself.  No more going on about how he wants a big bruising team or whatever.  Just build the team and shut up.

But isn't that really just a reflection of the relative lack of media interest in the Anaheim Ducks? I'm not sure that just quietly going about your business as the GM of the Leafs is really an option.

 

[bustaheims]

But isn't that really just a reflection of the relative lack of media interest in the Anaheim Ducks? I'm not sure that just quietly going about your business as the GM of the Leafs is really an option.

I was going to say basically the same thing. The reason we didn't hear much from Burke when he was in Anaheim wasn't because he didn't have much to say but, rather, because there wasn't really anyone there to listen.

 

[jonlleafs]

I tend to agree with you.  You didn't hear a peep out of him when he was in Anaheim regarding transactions other than the famous offer sheet for Penner.  He just needs to learn to keep to himself and let his actions speak for itself.  No more going on about how he wants a big bruising team or whatever.  Just build the team and shut up.

But isn't that really just a reflection of the relative lack of media interest in the Anaheim Ducks? I'm not sure that just quietly going about your business as the GM of the Leafs is really an option.

Yes it is most likely because of the lack of media there.  Burke would have to try hard to avoid talking to the media in Toronto.  Maybe he can clam up like JFJ did and speak awkwardly using a pre-canned speech?  That way he doesn't open himself to any thrashing by media/fans.

 

[Bonsixx]

But isn't that really just a reflection of the relative lack of media interest in the Anaheim Ducks? I'm not sure that just quietly going about your business as the GM of the Leafs is really an option.

I was going to say basically the same thing. The reason we didn't hear much from Burke when he was in Anaheim wasn't because he didn't have much to say but, rather, because there wasn't really anyone there to listen.

Was claiming he was "going to" acquire John Tavares necessary? That's the most extreme example I can remember. It gets to the point where other GMs might not want to deal with him because hey, screw him.

Maybe it's just because I'm not seeking it out, but I haven't heard any grand declarations from Marc Bergevin and he's in perhaps the only other comparable position to Burke in all of hockey.

 

[Mike1]

Also, you think it's SO easy to just go get a goalie and #1 center.

Its seems alot more easier for the 29 other teams in the league. You can make excuses all you want for this front office, the bottom line is they have failed to improve this team. The team four years ago in 08-09 had one more point than the team last year. Yet it seems like if you criticize this front office, your the bad guy.

The fans have every right to be critical of this franchise for its complete & utter inability to put a team on the ice that can compete. They are the richest team in the league but they are also the most poorly run. They have the longest playoff drought going & the final 20 games of the year were a disaster. The solution to solving the teams problems is Jay McClement & James Van Reimsdyk? Give me a break....

The OP has every right to be critical. You can attack him all you want but deep down you are thinking the same thing. I know, I am...

 

[jonlleafs]

But isn't that really just a reflection of the relative lack of media interest in the Anaheim Ducks? I'm not sure that just quietly going about your business as the GM of the Leafs is really an option.

I was going to say basically the same thing. The reason we didn't hear much from Burke when he was in Anaheim wasn't because he didn't have much to say but, rather, because there wasn't really anyone there to listen.

Was claiming he was "going to" acquire John Tavares necessary? That's the most extreme example I can remember. It gets to the point where other GMs might not want to deal with him because hey, screw him.

Maybe it's just because I'm not seeking it out, but I haven't heard any grand declarations from Marc Bergevin and he's in perhaps the only other comparable position to Burke in all of hockey.

Yeah, that is the one example that is seared into my memory.  Proclaiming that he's going to try to move up to attain Tavares.  He might have had a shot if he didn't open his mouth.

 

[Kin]

Yes it is most likely because of the lack of media there.  Burke would have to try hard to avoid talking to the media in Toronto.  Maybe he can clam up like JFJ did and speak awkwardly using a pre-canned speech?  That way he doesn't open himself to any thrashing by media/fans.

Sure, because if there's one thing about JFJ's tenure with the team it's that it was criticism-free.

 

[Kin]

Was claiming he was "going to" acquire John Tavares necessary? That's the most extreme example I can remember. It gets to the point where other GMs might not want to deal with him because hey, screw him.

Well, he didn't do that. He said he was going to try. Which, I mean, there's no hubris there.

I like to think that NHL GM's, as a whole, are not quite so like clique-y teenage girls that they'd view a guy saying what he's going to try and do as being out of bounds and freeze him out of the winter meetings because of that.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Also, you think it's SO easy to just go get a goalie and #1 center.

Its seems alot more easier for the 29 other teams in the league. You can make excuses all you want for this front office, the bottom line is they have failed to improve this team. The team four years ago in 08-09 had one more point than the team last year. Yet it seems like if you criticize this front office, your the bad guy.

The fans have every right to be critical of this franchise for its complete & utter inability to put a team on the ice that can compete. They are the richest team in the league but they are also the most poorly run. They have the longest playoff drought going & the final 20 games of the year were a disaster. The solution to solving the teams problems is Jay McClement & James Van Reimsdyk? Give me a break....

The OP has every right to be critical. You can attack him all you want but deep down you are thinking the same thing. I know, I am...

The OP was criticizing Burke for doing nothing.  Burke has done quite a bit since being here, and made a lot of moves.  No, they haven't all worked out, but I don't understand getting upset that he's doing "nothing" and then trying to use his son's death as a reason (and a reason why he shouldn't be GM).

 

[Bonsixx]

Was claiming he was "going to" acquire John Tavares necessary? That's the most extreme example I can remember. It gets to the point where other GMs might not want to deal with him because hey, screw him.

Well, he didn't do that. He said he was going to try. Which, I mean, there's no hubris there.

I like to think that NHL GM's, as a whole, are not quite so like clique-y teenage girls that they'd view a guy saying what he's going to try and do as being out of bounds and freeze him out of the winter meetings because of that.

Yes, you're right. He didn't say he was going to get him. He said he was going to try. But the point remains, unnecessary.

You don't think there was any eye-rolling going on in Long Island - and elsewhere - when they read that quote?

 

[Kin]

Yes, you're right. He didn't say he was going to get him. He said he was going to try. But the point remains, unnecessary.

You don't think there was any eye-rolling going on in Long Island - and elsewhere - when they read that quote?

Do I think that it really changed their impression of Brian Burke or altered their intentions as to what they planned to do? No. I think they know who Brian Burke is at this point and I think that  there was never a real chance they were going to trade the Tavares pick anyway. You could maybe argue that saying what he did got some people's hopes up but I don't know if he's responsible for that. If Burke went out tomorrow and said he was try and trade for Sid Crosby I think it would be pretty self-defeating for someone's hopes to get up that it was about to happen.

 

[Kin]

*cries*



Honestly it's fans like you guys that just accept this nonsense and pay for Leafs tickets that keep our team in a constant state of mediocrity.

Hmm... I want to say "and fans like you who have been impatient wanting a winner now that have caused us to trade away all prospects and picks for over-the-hill veterans, but still resulting in getting bounced early in the first couple of rounds", but I won't. 

That's funny, because it's exactly what I was going to say.

So then no matter what happens with the Leafs it's the fans fault?

Saying the one in this case is just as unfair as the other. The popular opinion of Leafs' fans doesn't mean a thing compared to the corporate interests of the club's current ownership or the demented Mr. Burns-like cartoon evil of their previous ownership. JFJ didn't make lousy trades because of fans and neither does Brian Burke.

 

[jonlleafs]

Was claiming he was "going to" acquire John Tavares necessary? That's the most extreme example I can remember. It gets to the point where other GMs might not want to deal with him because hey, screw him.

Well, he didn't do that. He said he was going to try. Which, I mean, there's no hubris there.

I like to think that NHL GM's, as a whole, are not quite so like clique-y teenage girls that they'd view a guy saying what he's going to try and do as being out of bounds and freeze him out of the winter meetings because of that.

The problem is that when you say it in Toronto, it's broadcast nationwide and some in the US.  Have you ever read the TSN.ca comments after each Leafs and sometimes non-Leafs articles?  So much hate for the Leafs.  So, while ya, they should be professionals, but you wonder how much of that rubs off on GMs too.  Like if you're Garth Snow and Burke is saying in the media that he wants to obtain Tavares, in the back of Snow's mind, he's like "Go screw yourself Burke.  What makes you think I'll trade the pick to you?  Just because you said so?". 

 

[#1PilarFan]

I tend to agree with you.  You didn't hear a peep out of him when he was in Anaheim regarding transactions other than the famous offer sheet for Penner.  He just needs to learn to keep to himself and let his actions speak for itself.  No more going on about how he wants a big bruising team or whatever.  Just build the team and shut up.

But isn't that really just a reflection of the relative lack of media interest in the Anaheim Ducks? I'm not sure that just quietly going about your business as the GM of the Leafs is really an option.

JFJ tried. Made the media hate him more.

 

[Kin]

The problem is that when you say it in Toronto, it's broadcast nationwide and some in the US.  Have you ever read the TSN.ca comments after each Leafs and sometimes non-Leafs articles?  So much hate for the Leafs.  So, while ya, they should be professionals, but you wonder how much of that rubs off on GMs too.  Like if you're Garth Snow and Burke is saying in the media that he wants to obtain Tavares, in the back of Snow's mind, he's like "Go screw yourself Burke.  What makes you think I'll trade the pick to you?  Just because you said so?".

If I'm Garth Snow? I don't give the slightest damn what Brian Burke says in the media. I have the tough enough job of trying to build the New York Islanders into a decent team and I'm certainly not going to let what another GM says influence how I do that job. I'd listen to his trade proposals and, if I thought they were good for my team I'd accept them and if not I wouldn't. I certainly wouldn't care about the tsn.ca comments or whatever.

 

[Kin]

JFJ tried. Made the media hate him more.

Honestly, I don't think that the tact a GM of the Leafs takes with the media has the slightest bearing on his media coverage. I really don't. I think it's 100% dictated by wins and losses. I think the exact same thing is true for how "tough" it is for a player in this market.

 

[jonlleafs]

*cries*



Honestly it's fans like you guys that just accept this nonsense and pay for Leafs tickets that keep our team in a constant state of mediocrity.

Hmm... I want to say "and fans like you who have been impatient wanting a winner now that have caused us to trade away all prospects and picks for over-the-hill veterans, but still resulting in getting bounced early in the first couple of rounds", but I won't. 

That's funny, because it's exactly what I was going to say.

So then no matter what happens with the Leafs it's the fans fault?

Saying the one in this case is just as unfair as the other. The popular opinion of Leafs' fans doesn't mean a thing compared to the corporate interests of the club's current ownership or the demented Mr. Burns-like cartoon evil of their previous ownership. JFJ didn't make lousy trades because of fans and neither does Brian Burke.

Well, fan and media pressure have forced firings before whether ownership will admit to it or not.

What I don't like is the fact that people keep complaining that because the ownership keeps raking in money that they have no motivation to win.  I think that's preposterous.  Burke and ownership have shown that they want to win.  They aren't mailing it in.  If they were, they wouldn't spend to the cap.  They would spend to the floor to maximize profit.  Burke is trying to make things better, but if he can't get a dance partner, then what's a GM to do?  Maybe GMs are a bit more leery now and don't want to get raped like Anaheim did with the Lupul and Gardiner trade?  Who knows?  But blaming the organization because it is wealthy is not the answer.  Until the day when Burke blatantly trades away good talent for mediocre talent (on purpose) just so that we don't continue to get better, just to keep fan's hope alive and never win the cup, I won't be bashing the organization.

As far as Burke is concerned, I don't think we've run the full course with him yet.  I want to see how well he's drafted and acquired young talent and to see if they pan out into top NHL players.  If not, then yeah, it's time to head in a different direction.  But I want to at least give him that and with a coach of his own choosing.  Heck, Sather's had like 2 decades with the Rangers and there were some bad years.  Why do they give him so much rope and why can't we give Burke a fraction of that time?

 

[rdowdall]

*cries*



Honestly it's fans like you guys that just accept this nonsense and pay for Leafs tickets that keep our team in a constant state of mediocrity.

Maybe try a petition?

I mean, some people are just more rational than others and understand building a hockey team a little better.

So when Nik is condescending, it's a bad thing, but when your condescending, it's okay?

 

[Kin]

Well, fan and media pressure have forced firings before whether ownership will admit to it or not.

I don't think that's true. I can't think of a single person who's been fired by the Leafs during my 20 some odd years as a fan whose record didn't entirely justify them being fired. Pat Quinn as GM maybe comes the closest but that seemed to be more the result of an internal power struggle instead of fan or media opinion.

What I don't like is the fact that people keep complaining that because the ownership keeps raking in money that they have no motivation to win. I think that's preposterous.  Burke and ownership have shown that they want to win.  They aren't mailing it in.  If they were, they wouldn't spend to the cap.  They would spend to the floor to maximize profit.  Burke is trying to make things better, but if he can't get a dance partner, then what's a GM to do?  Maybe GMs are a bit more leery now and don't want to get raped like Anaheim did with the Lupul and Gardiner trade?  Who knows?  But blaming the organization because it is wealthy is not the answer.  Until the day when Burke blatantly trades away good talent for mediocre talent (on purpose) just so that we don't continue to get better, just to keep fan's hope alive and never winu the cup, I won't be bashing the organization.

I'm not going to get into most of that because I've developed repetitive stress disorder from this very argument but I will say that I'm pretty effin' sure that GMs around the league aren't looking at Brian Burke's history of trades with the Leafs and saying "I can't trade with him, I'll lose the shirt off my back!"

Heck, Sather's had like 2 decades with the Rangers and there were some bad years.  Why do they give him so much rope and why can't we give Burke a fraction of that time?

Sather's been there 12 years. Burke's been here 4. That's a pretty healthy fraction. Sather didn't make the playoffs his first four years with the team, neither did Burke. I think that put both guys in a similar spot. If Sather hadn't shown immediate improvement when the league came back from the lockout he'd probably have gotten fired too.

 

[#1PilarFan]

JFJ tried. Made the media hate him more.

Honestly, I don't think that the tact a GM of the Leafs takes with the media has the slightest bearing on his media coverage. I really don't. I think it's 100% dictated by wins and losses.

Disagree. I mean, JFJ and Babcock were pretty much detested by the media in Toronto, mostly because they were cut from the same cloth. They wanted to prevent any leaks and I remember Bobcat cutting Babcock off just because he wouldn't talk about anything that could get him fined for tampering. When Burke did that recently, Bobcat was more than happy to work around it.

Colangelo and Burke on the other hand have had similar success and are still liked by many in the media. I mean, half of PR is relationship building.