Trade deadline moves

[Guilt Trip]

Part of a post I made on the Marlies board:
However Rosen had 3 assists yesterday and leads the AHL in Defensive scoring..I am sounding like a broken record here but I don't see him being any worse than Bad Jake TM and we are going to lose Jake for nothing just like JVR and Bozi.

I hate to burst your bubble H but if you think Rosen is equal to Gardiner or even close to it then you're overrating him immensely and setting him up to fail next season when he does play with the team.

Rosen might be better defensively but def not sure about the offence. It would be nice to see him play a few games up here but chances of that happening this year seems to be zero, with Rielly, Gardiner, Dermott, Muzzin  and Hainsey for lefties. I hope H is right tho!!

 

[Kin]

When TJ Brennan was Rosen's age he scored 25 goals and 72 points in the AHL.

AHL scoring numbers, they're a hoot.

 

[cabber24]

What I could see is a three team thing where Gardiner goes to Team A who gives Team B a pick/prospect package who gives the Leafs maybe a minor future asset and maybe a decent NHL capable RHD.

I'm not sure how I'd feel about this trade personally, but something around Gardiner for Tyler Myers could make sense for both teams. Similar cap hits, both pending UFAs, neither team can probably fit them back in next season. Toronto's strong on the left and weak on the right, Winnipeg's weak on the left and strong on the right.

Rielly-Myers
Muzzin-Zaitsev
Dermott-Hainsey

Would give Winnipeg a top-4 of:

Morrisey-Trouba
Gardiner-Byfuglien

Winnipeg's other lefties are Dmitry Kulikov and Ben Chariot, neither of who are top-4 guys.

Get on the phone to Dubas. I'd do that, especially if they're not trading him for assets, or RHD with term.

Yes, please! This is quite a logical trade. This would help Toronto immensely.

 

[Kin]

I'm not sure how I'd feel about this trade personally, but something around Gardiner for Tyler Myers could make sense for both teams. Similar cap hits, both pending UFAs, neither team can probably fit them back in next season. Toronto's strong on the left and weak on the right, Winnipeg's weak on the left and strong on the right.

I'd still want a decent kicker on that to make it worth the Leafs' while. A 2nd or equivalent prospect at least. I'm not a big Myers fan so absent that I'd rather role the dice with the better defenseman.

 

[Bullfrog]

Part of a post I made on the Marlies board:
However Rosen had 3 assists yesterday and leads the AHL in Defensive scoring..I am sounding like a broken record here but I don't see him being any worse than Bad Jake TM and we are going to lose Jake for nothing just like JVR and Bozi.

I hate to burst your bubble H but if you think Rosen is equal to Gardiner or even close to it then you're overrating him immensely and setting him up to fail next season when he does play with the team.

Rosen might be better defensively but def not sure about the offence. It would be nice to see him play a few games up here but chances of that happening this year seems to be zero, with Rielly, Gardiner, Dermott, Muzzin  and Hainsey for lefties. I hope H is right tho!!

What makes you think Rosen is better defensively?

 

[Kin]

The Leafs are probably going to lose Jake Gardiner this summer because they can't afford to pay him the 6+ million he'll command as a free agent.

If Rosen were anywhere near the level of a 6 million dollar defenseman teams would be kicking the Leafs door down to try and pry him out of the minors and the Leafs would be insane not to try and land the return that sort of asset could fetch.

 

[cabber24]

The Leafs are probably going to lose Jake Gardiner this summer because they can't afford to pay him the 6+ million he'll command as a free agent.

That's why I like the Myers suggestion... might as well get better for the rest of season by swapping surpluses with deficits with Winnipeg, win-win.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Part of a post I made on the Marlies board:
However Rosen had 3 assists yesterday and leads the AHL in Defensive scoring..I am sounding like a broken record here but I don't see him being any worse than Bad Jake TM and we are going to lose Jake for nothing just like JVR and Bozi.

I hate to burst your bubble H but if you think Rosen is equal to Gardiner or even close to it then you're overrating him immensely and setting him up to fail next season when he does play with the team.

Rosen might be better defensively but def not sure about the offence. It would be nice to see him play a few games up here but chances of that happening this year seems to be zero, with Rielly, Gardiner, Dermott, Muzzin  and Hainsey for lefties. I hope H is right tho!!

What makes you think Rosen is better defensively?

First of all I said might. I didn't say he is and with Rosen in the minors, we simply don't know if he is or isn't. What I do know is that Jake is not very strong on the defensive side of the puck. He's the 6th best "defenceman" in our top 6.

 

[Highlander]

The Leafs are probably going to lose Jake Gardiner this summer because they can't afford to pay him the 6+ million he'll command as a free agent.

If Rosen were anywhere near the level of a 6 million dollar defenseman teams would be kicking the Leafs door down to try and pry him out of the minors and the Leafs would be insane not to try and land the return that sort of asset could fetch.

Look Keefe gushes about Rosen, I watch a lot of Marlies highlites etc and he is a very smooth skater, has an amazingly powerful wrist shot from the line that tends to hit the net,  he attacks the circle and makes very deliberate snipe shots. On the defensive side, he covers his ground and closes gaps.  Is he Jake Gardiner or close, not saying that at all, but if we don't move Jake we lose him and if we don't get picks or good prospects or a trade on a RHD like was suggested with Winnipeg, then we lose out similar to JVR, Bozak and a sack of cold beans that Komorav might have gleaned.  I simply don't think we can afford to let talented players walk for zilch.

 

[Kin]

Look Keefe gushes about Rosen, I watch a lot of Marlies highlites etc and he is a very smooth skater, has an amazingly powerful wrist shot from the line that tends to hit the net,  he attacks the circle and makes very deliberate snipe shots.

Wow. A player that looks good in highlight reels?

Is he Jake Gardiner or close, not saying that at all

I don't see him being any worse than Bad Jake

I simply don't think we can afford to let talented players walk for zilch.

Whether or not the Leafs "can afford" to let Gardiner walk and how good Rosen is are two entirely separate conversations and you seem very confused about which one you're in. 

Regardless though, next year the Leafs top 3 LHD are probably going to be Rielly, Muzzin and Dermott.

 

[ZBBM]

The Leafs are probably going to lose Jake Gardiner this summer because they can't afford to pay him the 6+ million he'll command as a free agent.

This.

And that's why they should trade him at the deadline, so long as the return is at all reasonable.  In no way does doing that signal they "are giving up on the season"; it's prudent asset management.  (Which they didn't do last year, when it was even more clear that they should have, with Bozak and JVR.)

Say they trade Gardiner for assets that do not include a d-man they can plug into the lineup.  Gardiner would then be replaced by Holl or Rosen, most likely.  There would be a significant dropoff on offense, but likely not so much on defense.

What does that do to the Leafs' chances this year (which are long odds anyway)?  Reduces them somewhat ... perhaps.

I don't think any team can just sustain the loss of 3 quality roster players over 2 years and not get anything in return.  Certainly "renting" Bozak  and JVR last year brought exactly squatto.

 

[Kin]

  There would be a significant dropoff on offense, but likely not so much on defense.

Because you get so very pouty when you feel people mischaracterize your argument it's probably worth mentioning that people who think that trading Gardiner for future assets represents "giving up" probably don't agree with the bolded part here.

 

[ZBBM]

  There would be a significant dropoff on offense, but likely not so much on defense.

Because you get so very pouty when you feel people mischaracterize your argument it's probably worth mentioning that people who think that trading Gardiner for future assets represents "giving up" probably don't agree with the bolded part here.

  I'm sadding up here.  And this, even though I quoted your post approvingly. 

 

[Highlander]

the fact of the matter is that Rosen is getting rave reviews for being the best D man on the Marlies and by a large factor.  Keefe regularly raves about him. Scouts are saying he is already NHL ready.
So what the frick, ZBBM (and many others) seems to agree that letting him go for nothing is bad asset management, which was exactly true with JVR and Bozie.
I am not confused Nik at all, if you have an asset like Rosen then you give him a chance instead of losing Dr.Jeckel and Mr. Hyde of a D man for a solid return.  Why can't we just trade him to a team with weak left side and strong right side?

 

[Kin]

  I'm sadding up here.  And this, even though I quoted your post approvingly.

Being as the bulk of your post was about how a 6+ million dollar UFA free agent could be replaced by a fringe NHLer without significant downside to the Leafs' playoff chances I'm not entirely sure you were on board.

 

[Kin]

Scouts are saying he is already NHL ready.

Which scouts?

Why can't we just trade him to a team with weak left side and strong right side?

You mean the thing I suggested on the last page?

 

[ZBBM]

  I'm sadding up here.  And this, even though I quoted your post approvingly.

Being as the bulk of your post was about how a 6+ million dollar UFA free agent could be replaced by a fringe NHLer without significant downside to the Leafs' playoff chances I'm not entirely sure you were on board.

Heh, you don't have to agree with my conclusions regarding the Leafs' playoff chances, but instead of resorting to one of your go-to potshots at others' posts you might actually deign to share with us what you think the team should do since you are convinced (rightly IMO) that he won't be re-signed.  Then any of us who are so inclined can launch ad hominem attacks on you because of your views.  That stuff adds real value to the discussion.

 

[Kin]

Heh, you don't have to agree with my conclusions regarding the Leafs' playoff chances, but instead of resorting to one of your go-to potshots at others' posts you might actually deign to share with us what you think the team should do since you are convinced (rightly IMO) that he won't be re-signed.

Yup, you nailed it. I'm famously reticent to share my opinion on what the Leafs should do. I haven't done it in this thread for at least several hours.

I think the Leafs could trade Gardiner but if they did I don't think it would be your typical deadline deal where a veteran on an expiring contract is dealt for a pick and a prospect sort of thing.

What I could see is a three team thing where Gardiner goes to Team A who gives Team B a pick/prospect package who gives the Leafs maybe a minor future asset and maybe a decent NHL capable RHD.

It's unlikely but it could be a way to get something for Gardiner without looking like you're giving up for this year.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Honestly, a part of me is looking forward to never having to discuss Gardiner again. Some of this stuff makes my brain hurt.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Is he Jake Gardiner or close, not saying that at all

You've called Rosen a "good replacement" for Gardiner and said you "don't see him being any worse" than Jake. In no way are Rosen and Gardiner comparable. If Gardiner was traded, there's a pretty good chance Rosen STILL wouldn't be playing in the NHL. Babcock would just go with Rielly-Hainsey, Muzzin-Zaitsev, Dermott-Oz. And that's assuming he's dealt for picks and not another defenceman.

the fact of the matter is that Rosen is getting rave reviews for being the best D man on the Marlies and by a large factor.  Keefe regularly raves about him.

You could have literally said all of these things about Holl and Marincin during their play with the Marlies last season.

Fact is he's a 25-year old defenceman with 4 NHL games under his belt and 1 above average AHL season. To expect him to be anything more than a depth NHL guy just screams of homer-ism.