Trade Deadline

[Strangelove]

I mean, I kind of agree with the philosophy in general.  The Leafs now with Dermott and Kapanen having regular roles are improved from the team that played back in October, so in that sense they're like "acquisitions" since they weren't on the Leafs until recently.  Hopefully Plekanec can provide a bit of an upgrade down the middle and we'll see where this thing goes in the playoffs.

If Plekanec is used by Babcock as a top six forward (a la early season Komarov), then that is subtraction by addition.

The contrast between how veterans and young stars are treated by the team is pretty wacky. Komarov got several months to stink up the joint and put up historically awful offensive numbers before finally being demoted from the top six.

Nylander got one game at center before the coach kicked him out of the position in favour of an underperforming veteran and publicly questioned his "compete" level.

The tough love thing didn't work when Randy did it, and i don't much like it from Babcock and co either.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Don't forget that JVR, Bozak, and Komarov are technically all "own-rentals" too. How many teams acquired 5 key roster players? If you think about it we crushed deadline day.

 

[Kin]

Well it's a matter of a minor upgrade with Plekanec, and seeing what we have in house.  I don't mind the approach of playing our guys down the stretch and into the playoffs to see how good they are, we're still only 2 years removed from 30th overall.

It's not the end of the world or anything but I think that it's clear that A) they tried to make something happen and couldn't and B) teams out there were able to improve their situations at very reasonable prices.

But more than that there's just so much BS in that interview. Like this:

You certainly have to start with the goaltender. I always believe that you start with the goaltender and go through the defense and then, if you can get the quality forwards, you have a chance.

Like, what does this even mean? Clearly successful teams have been built by adding key elements on D/F first so...it's important to have good goaltending then? Good goaltending matters? Stunning insight there Lou.

 

[Zee]

Well it's a matter of a minor upgrade with Plekanec, and seeing what we have in house.  I don't mind the approach of playing our guys down the stretch and into the playoffs to see how good they are, we're still only 2 years removed from 30th overall.

It's not the end of the world or anything but I think that it's clear that A) they tried to make something happen and couldn't and B) teams out there were able to improve their situations at very reasonable prices.

I'm fine with them A) trying to make something happen and couldn't if they value some of the prospects in the system highly and didn't want to give up on them.  I don't know what the equal package to get McDonagh would have been.  Tampa gave up a 20 goal scorer and a couple of prospects.  Does that mean the Leafs could have made the deal with Brown, and maybe Johnnson and/or Grundstrom and picks? 

 

[Kin]

I'm fine with them A) trying to make something happen and couldn't if they value some of the prospects in the system highly and didn't want to give up on them.  I don't know what the equal package to get McDonagh would have been.  Tampa gave up a 20 goal scorer and a couple of prospects.  Does that mean the Leafs could have made the deal with Brown, and maybe Johnnson and/or Grundstrom and picks?

I don't think trading a prospect means you're giving up on a prospect. To the contrary, I think you're recognizing their value but just that it maybe isn't the perfect fit depending on the various strengths/weaknesses or you have the opportunity to get something even more valuable in return.

I've said this before but if you're ok with the principle of making a deal that will really improve the team you have to also be ok with moving players who you'd rather not get rid of. Remember that the talk re: Phaneuf when he got traded here was how great it was that we got the #1 defenseman of our dreams and didn't have to give up too much? Well, it turned out only one of those things was true.

But even then my reaction here is really just that Lou seems full of it rather than any specific criticisms of what they did or didn't do at the deadline.

 

[herman]

You certainly have to start with the goaltender. I always believe that you start with the goaltender and go through the defense and then, if you can get the quality forwards, you have a chance.

Like, what does this even mean? Clearly successful teams have been built by adding key elements on D/F first so...it's important to have good goaltending then? Good goaltending matters? Stunning insight there Lou.

I was a bit confused that we would pursue a goaltender so early in our rebuild (why not gain more top end picks? ride out Bernier's contract until the deadline, etc.). I liked Andersen as a choice, but I was confused by the timing.

Looking back on it now, I think I get it. Having a stable presence, even an average one, makes a huge difference to skilled creative players up front and young defenders. When every little mixup or mishap from trying to execute winds up in the back of your net, it's deflating in a game and cumulative over the course of a season +. I look at Carolina's beautiful defense group and pretty solid complement of forwards as the reverse example, and see them still waffling in the mushy middle despite their consistent shot share advantage.

 

[Highlander]

I think I can remember Burke saying exactly what Lou just game out with, built out
starting with the net, defense and then forwards.  So it must be the common mantra for aging GM's.

We started with a flock of talented forwards, bought a great Goaltender and have a suspect D.  So in the words of Meatloaf "2 out of 3 aint bad".

 

[herman]

Well it's a matter of a minor upgrade with Plekanec, and seeing what we have in house.  I don't mind the approach of playing our guys down the stretch and into the playoffs to see how good they are, we're still only 2 years removed from 30th overall.

It's not the end of the world or anything but I think that it's clear that A) they tried to make something happen and couldn't and B) teams out there were able to improve their situations at very reasonable prices.

I'm fine with them A) trying to make something happen and couldn't if they value some of the prospects in the system highly and didn't want to give up on them.  I don't know what the equal package to get McDonagh would have been.  Tampa gave up a 20 goal scorer and a couple of prospects.  Does that mean the Leafs could have made the deal with Brown, and maybe Johnnson and/or Grundstrom and picks?

I appreciate a management group that can set their valuation and stick with it. I also a appreciate a management group that knows when they're within spitting distance of glory and just boxes everyone else out. I don't think the Leafs are that close yet.

McDonagh would have been nice to get; the ask according to a couple insider-adjacent people was Liljegren +. For us, he would have been a marked improvement to the current corps, but not a perfect fit 'forever'. Would he have moved the needle enough to warrant the spend? I don't know but I lean towards not really.

Ranger fans were a bit miffed by the seemingly middling return, and I was surprised it was so cheap looking. The Leafs were a distant third in terms of what was being offered.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

McDonagh would have been nice to get; the ask according to a couple insider-adjacent people was Liljegren +.

I'm curious where you heard that.

 

[herman]

McDonagh would have been nice to get; the ask according to a couple insider-adjacent people was Liljegren +.

I'm curious where you heard that.

There was this one:
https://twitter.com/mirtle/status/968219546426359808

Which is clearly just a guess by an insider-adjacent person. The other one I saw referenced on reddit was a TSN off-camera employee who tweeted some deets, but I can't find it. He used to follow me for some reason, but has disappeared (Lou'd?). Kypreos was apparently also saying that the Leafs would need to start at Liljegren or they won't get any traction on a McDonagh trade.

 

[Zee]

Don't forget that JVR, Bozak, and Komarov are technically all "own-rentals" too. How many teams acquired 5 key roster players? If you think about it we crushed deadline day.

Hey man, 6 player adds!  Don't sell us short here.  The 3 you mentioned, Plekanec, Dermott and Kapanen make 6.  8)

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Which is clearly just a guess by an insider-adjacent person. The other one I saw referenced on reddit was a TSN off-camera employee who tweeted some deets, but I can't find it. He used to follow me for some reason, but has disappeared (Lou'd?). Kypreos was apparently also saying that the Leafs would need to start at Liljegren or they won't get any traction on a McDonagh trade.

Even calling Mirtle "insider-adjacent" sounds like quite the stretch. That guess also came prior to the actual return from Tampa became public and everyone at that point figured it was going to be a pretty massive haul for the Rangers. I just can't fathom how the Rangers could accept the prospects that they did from Tampa but demand that the Leafs give them Liljegren or Dermott.

As for the other one, you lost me at "on reddit".

 

[herman]

Which is clearly just a guess by an insider-adjacent person. The other one I saw referenced on reddit was a TSN off-camera employee who tweeted some deets, but I can't find it. He used to follow me for some reason, but has disappeared (Lou'd?). Kypreos was apparently also saying that the Leafs would need to start at Liljegren or they won't get any traction on a McDonagh trade.

Even calling Mirtle "insider-adjacent" sounds like quite the stretch. That guess also came prior to the actual return from Tampa became public and everyone at that point figured it was going to be a pretty massive haul for the Rangers. I just can't fathom how the Rangers could accept the prospects that they did from Tampa but demand that the Leafs give them Liljegren or Dermott.

As for the other one, you lost me at "on reddit".

Let me show you what they were saying on hfboards...

 

[Frank E]

Like, what does this even mean? Clearly successful teams have been built by adding key elements on D/F first so...it's important to have good goaltending then? Good goaltending matters? Stunning insight there Lou.

It's just typical Lou drivel.  I don't even read the transcripts of his interviews anymore...there just isn't anything substantial in them. 

Babcock I find a little more candid, but Lou interviews like a platitudes programmed robot.

Speaking of Lou, nobody has talked about this trade deadline in the context of him not having a deal for next season and beyond...does anyone think that Dubas takes over this summer, and maybe Lou just stays on as an advisor?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Let me show you what they were saying on hfboards...

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Don't forget that JVR, Bozak, and Komarov are technically all "own-rentals" too. How many teams acquired 5 key roster players? If you think about it we crushed deadline day.

Hey man, 6 player adds!  Don't sell us short here.  The 3 you mentioned, Plekanec, Dermott and Kapanen make 6.  8)

You're right. That A just became an A+.

 

[herman]

Let's assume all top three suitors were negotiated into offering pretty much the equivalent package.

I think the kicker is the conditional 2nd that turns into a 1st if they win a Cup in the remainder of McDonagh contract. Which of Tampa, Florida, and Toronto has the best window with McDonagh?

 

[Kin]

Let's assume all top three suitors were negotiated into offering pretty much the equivalent package.

I think the kicker is the conditional 2nd that turns into a 1st if they win a Cup in the remainder of McDonagh contract. Which of Tampa, Florida, and Toronto has the best window with McDonagh?

If you're that invested in the pursuit of McDonagh why in the world would you let NYR's perception of your Stanley Cup chances be the deciding factor?

 

[Frank E]

Let's assume all top three suitors were negotiated into offering pretty much the equivalent package.

I think the kicker is the conditional 2nd that turns into a 1st if they win a Cup in the remainder of McDonagh contract. Which of Tampa, Florida, and Toronto has the best window with McDonagh?

Florida could catch a wildcard spot if they keep playing the way they are.  They looked pretty good against the Leafs the other night too, and are 7-3 in their last 10.

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/standings#/wildcard

But obviously, Tampa is the clear front runner in your example.

 

[Kin]

When every little mixup or mishap from trying to execute winds up in the back of your net, it's deflating in a game and cumulative over the course of a season +.

For a guy who supposedly loves data over the cliche you sure revert to the cliche whenever it's needed to insulate this management group from criticism.