Training Camp Thread - Now with 100% more Tavares

[Frank E]

At the same time, this is the fringe; I don't think I'm going to sweat it all that much this season. We're not in rebuild mode anymore, the core is set, and once Nylander is back in the fold, it's a pretty scary great one (if we get average defense on the right side).

Well, at least we can blame something when they don't go 15-0 to start the season.

 

[Coco-puffs]

Most likely we will blame Freddie.  I don't think he's had a good October in a Leafs uniform yet.  (not that the team in front of him has helped in any October so far, except filling the other net)

 

[cabber24]

I have already begun to blame the D.

 

[Kin]

I'm pleased with the decision to give Sparks a try. McElhinney has been a very good backup, but I've been skeptical of a backup putting up career numbers at age 35. There have been some late blooming goalies, but they're typically stars, not back-ups.

I don't disagree but i think putting up good numbers as a backup is as much about adapting to the role mentally/preparation wise so while it's unlikely McBackup has developed to the point where his sv% last year is a real reflection of his ability, I could buy that he's better suited to the particular challenges that come with playing every 10 days.

I am not against picking Sparks over McElhinney, but this does kind of give the lie to the idea that if you produce at the NHL level -- in fact, do pretty much everything you are asked to do -- then you will be rewarded with a roster spot.  McElhinney could legitimately go to Dubas and say, "What more did you want me to do?"  And the only honest answer Dubas could give would be, "Become younger."

I don't think players are under any illusions about the reality of the business they're in. They know that they're expendable the second a team can find someone younger and/or cheaper who can do the same thing.

Which is why when players were asked about Nylander they all seemed reasonable about it just being another facet of the business. They know the teams don't care about them so they get the instinct to get your money when you can.

 

[ZBBM]

I'm pleased with the decision to give Sparks a try. McElhinney has been a very good backup, but I've been skeptical of a backup putting up career numbers at age 35. There have been some late blooming goalies, but they're typically stars, not back-ups.

I don't disagree but i think putting up good numbers as a backup is as much about adapting to the role mentally/preparation wise so while it's unlikely McBackup has developed to the point where his sv% last year is a real reflection of his ability, I could buy that he's better suited to the particular challenges that come with playing every 10 days.

I am not against picking Sparks over McElhinney, but this does kind of give the lie to the idea that if you produce at the NHL level -- in fact, do pretty much everything you are asked to do -- then you will be rewarded with a roster spot.  McElhinney could legitimately go to Dubas and say, "What more did you want me to do?"  And the only honest answer Dubas could give would be, "Become younger."

I don't think players are under any illusions about the reality of the business they're in. They know that they're expendable the second a team can find someone younger and/or cheaper who can do the same thing.

Which is why when players were asked about Nylander they all seemed reasonable about it just being another facet of the business. They know the teams don't care about them so they get the instinct to get your money when you can.

Not disagreeing with you, but this is precisely the question Sparks hasn't answered yet.

And to herman's point, not sure why Sparks' being a Leafs draft would mean anything at all.

 

[hockeyfan1]

This was my view...

Right from the get go, one tends to think of experience first, and that goes to McElhinney (as well as Pickard). If the Leafs are to be a contender, then they'll need all the know how of an experienced NHL backup. However, if the Leafs decide to go the route of youth, then Sparks should be given the role.

It largely depends on which of these three -- McElhinney Sparks, or Pickard fit into their plans going forward.

Most importantly, what exactly are their expectations of their backups role, how many games will Freddy Andersen start will also determine the status of their backup goaltender. If one wants reliability in a sparse role, then McElhinney is the way to go. If one wants youth, quickness, the ability to improve and be part of the team's overall movement going forward, then Sparks is the way to go. If one wants a different style but with experience again, then Pickard becomes the choice.

Personally speaking, I'd like the Leafs to ditch tradition and take the chance with Sparks, as raw and inexperienced an NHLer type goaltender that he is. Let's face it, they won't be depending on McElhinney forever considering his age, another same will eventually go for Andersen but that's a story for much later.

For me, it's Sparks with some trepidation. Otherwise, if it simply feels too uncomfortable foe now, take McElhinney and give him the job.

 

[Frank E]

Not disagreeing with you, but this is precisely the question Sparks hasn't answered yet.

And to herman's point, not sure why Sparks' being a Leafs draft would mean anything at all.

I can easily agree that Sparks hasn't proven anything yet in the NHL.  This is a bit of a gamble, but I think you can trade for average back-up goaltending later if it doesn't work out.

I think the fact that he's proven all that he can prove after going through the entire Leafs prospect process pretty successfully is why they probably felt the need to promote him.  At some point you have to back-up what you preach to these guys, and what Sparks does with the opportunity now is on him.  The training wheels are off.

 

[Kin]

Not disagreeing with you, but this is precisely the question Sparks hasn't answered yet.

Well, there you go. For you to be expendable a team just has to think they can adequately replace you.

So, again, get that money.

 

[Frank E]

I just wanted to add that I think maybe if Sparks does do pretty well, that would push Andersen more so than McElhinney ever would.  McElhinney is not gunning for Andersen's job, but Sparks likely is.

 

[herman]

Not disagreeing with you, but this is precisely the question Sparks hasn't answered yet.

And to herman's point, not sure why Sparks' being a Leafs draft would mean anything at all.

I can easily agree that Sparks hasn't proven anything yet in the NHL.  This is a bit of a gamble, but I think you can trade for average back-up goaltending later if it doesn't work out.

I think the fact that he's proven all that he can prove after going through the entire Leafs prospect process pretty successfully is why they probably felt the need to promote him.  At some point you have to back-up what you preach to these guys, and what Sparks does with the opportunity now is on him.  The training wheels are off.

In addition to this good point above, being picked in the draft by the team carries with it the additional privilege of making your GM and scouts look and feel good about your success; i.e. front offices will tend to be biased towards draft picks vs. mercenaries that are filling a hole.

Granted that can prove to be a blindspot in many cases, but in this one, Sparks has maxed out the level he is in, so now they have to, as Frank pointed out, put their money where their mouths are.

To that end, I don't think it's a huge coincidence that the Marlies' top goaltender and the top D pairing made it together. I can see Marincin and/or Holl coming in on the back half of a B2B so Sparks has some measure of chemistry and comfort already established (in addition to Dermott).

I can also see Dubas, rightly or wrongly, wanting to showcase his 4 years of effort with the Marlies with some tangible results in the NHL after culminating his AHL career with a Calder Cup. The opening day roster will sport Hyman, Brown, Kapanen, Johnsson, Gauthier, Sparks, Dermott, Marincin, Holl, and hopefully Nylander as Dubas-Marlies graduates -- nearly 50% of the 23-man roster.

 

[AvroArrow]

Not a fan of Sparks in the least, but I can understand this move from a business perspective.

 

[ZBBM]

Not disagreeing with you, but this is precisely the question Sparks hasn't answered yet.

And to herman's point, not sure why Sparks' being a Leafs draft would mean anything at all.

I can easily agree that Sparks hasn't proven anything yet in the NHL.  This is a bit of a gamble, but I think you can trade for average back-up goaltending later if it doesn't work out.

I think the fact that he's proven all that he can prove after going through the entire Leafs prospect process pretty successfully is why they probably felt the need to promote him.  At some point you have to back-up what you preach to these guys, and what Sparks does with the opportunity now is on him.  The training wheels are off.

In addition to this good point above, being picked in the draft by the team carries with it the additional privilege of making your GM and scouts look and feel good about your success; i.e. front offices will tend to be biased towards draft picks vs. mercenaries that are filling a hole.

Granted that can prove to be a blindspot in many cases, but in this one, Sparks has maxed out the level he is in, so now they have to, as Frank pointed out, put their money where their mouths are.

To that end, I don't think it's a huge coincidence that the Marlies' top goaltender and the top D pairing made it together. I can see Marincin and/or Holl coming in on the back half of a B2B so Sparks has some measure of chemistry and comfort already established (in addition to Dermott).

I can also see Dubas, rightly or wrongly, wanting to showcase his 4 years of effort with the Marlies with some tangible results in the NHL after culminating his AHL career with a Calder Cup. The opening day roster will sport Hyman, Brown, Kapanen, Johnsson, Gauthier, Sparks, Dermott, Marincin, Holl, and hopefully Nylander as Dubas-Marlies graduates -- nearly 50% of the 23-man roster.

So, in a nutshell: ego ?ber alles?

 

[rdowdall]

I imagine that Dubas has sent a picture of McBackup in a Marlies uniform, and Carrick in a Dallas uniform to Nylander with the caption "Eventually we'll get to someone you DO care about."

 

[Phileas Fogg]

I just wanted to add that I think maybe if Sparks does do pretty well, that would push Andersen more so than McElhinney ever would.  McElhinney is not gunning for Andersen's job, but Sparks likely is.

I think the carrot/stick type of arguement doesn't always apply to athletes, particularly goalies, who are often nuts*.

Getting comfortable in a starting goalie role isn't necessarily a bad thing. I'm not sure that the threat of another option to make a goalie play "harder" necessarily makes him better.

I think they decided to go with Sparks solely because I'm guessing they feel that Andersen's workload was too high last year, and probably want a younger goalie they figure can play a higher workload.

*personal observation from goalies I'm encountered over the last 40 yrs, may or may not be accurate

 

[OldTimeHockey]

I just wanted to add that I think maybe if Sparks does do pretty well, that would push Andersen more so than McElhinney ever would.  McElhinney is not gunning for Andersen's job, but Sparks likely is.

I think the carrot/stick type of arguement doesn't always apply to athletes, particularly goalies, who are often nuts*.

Getting comfortable in a starting goalie role isn't necessarily a bad thing. I'm not sure that the threat of another option to make a goalie play "harder" necessarily makes him better.

I think they decided to go with Sparks solely because I'm guessing they feel that Andersen's workload was too high last year, and probably want a younger goalie they figure can play a higher workload.

*personal observation from goalies I'm encountered over the last 40 yrs, may or may not be accurate

My own personal opinion(as a goalie that is nuts) is it all depends on the person being pushed. Some goalies will excel. Some will fall apart.