Unofficial 2013-2014 Armchair GM Thread

[Kin]

Well, I don't want to speak for Busta but I'm pretty sure his point wasn't that if you looked "Culture" up in the dictionary you'd find a big blank spot where a definition should be. As for your explanation, it was a pretty circular "it matters because people say it matters" which I don't find all that compelling.

To me, culture is up there with things like intangibles when it comes to putting together a hockey team. They're terms that people use to justify decisions that don't necessarily correspond with the facts. They're also things that are in good shape when teams are playing well/winning and in poor shape when they're not, pretty much regardless of how the roster is shaped.

No, I agree. I don't doubt that there is a "culture" to the extent that any group of people in a professional setting will take some of their cues from the other people around them but I don't think it's in any way the tangible factor it's being held up as.

 

[Champ Kind]

Well, I don't want to speak for Busta but I'm pretty sure his point wasn't that if you looked "Culture" up in the dictionary you'd find a big blank spot where a definition should be. As for your explanation, it was a pretty circular "it matters because people say it matters" which I don't find all that compelling.

To me, culture is up there with things like intangibles when it comes to putting together a hockey team. They're terms that people use to justify decisions that don't necessarily correspond with the facts. They're also things that are in good shape when teams are playing well/winning and in poor shape when they're not, pretty much regardless of how the roster is shaped.

No, I agree. I don't doubt that there is a "culture" to the extent that any group of people in a professional setting will take some of their cues from the other people around them but I don't think it's in any way the tangible factor it's being held up as.

I would only add that culture - or maybe the better term is tone - is set by the leaders of an organization.  I know that what I'm referring to is more of an organizational / corporate thing, whereas the whole idea of it in the sports context is more ambiguous, but organizational culture is a real thing that can be and is changed through specific actions.

Again, different context.

 

[Kin]

I would only add that culture - or maybe the better term is tone - is set by the leaders of an organization.  I know that what I'm referring to is more of an organizational / corporate thing, whereas the whole idea of it in the sports context is more ambiguous, but organizational culture is a real thing that can be and is changed through specific actions.

Again, different context.

Like I said, to the extent that organizational culture exists in a loosely defined sense I agree. To the extent that organizational culture, in this specific context, means a great deal in terms of winning and losing I'm very much on the skeptical side of things.

 

[Bullfrog]

I'm kind of on the fence with it. I generally agree with what Nik says above. I think the team culture can have an impact, but I struggle with the degree, particularly in context with the amount of skill on any given NHL roster.

 

[Frank E]

Well, I don't want to speak for Busta but I'm pretty sure his point wasn't that if you looked "Culture" up in the dictionary you'd find a big blank spot where a definition should be. As for your explanation, it was a pretty circular "it matters because people say it matters" which I don't find all that compelling.

To me, culture is up there with things like intangibles when it comes to putting together a hockey team. They're terms that people use to justify decisions that don't necessarily correspond with the facts. They're also things that are in good shape when teams are playing well/winning and in poor shape when they're not, pretty much regardless of how the roster is shaped.

I see what you're saying, but I don't agree with it entirely.  I believe that a good constructive culture can overcome some talent deficiencies by encouraging above average performance, or rewarding based on performance in a team environment.  I would argue that a lack of this "constructive culture" can still be overcome by greater talents levels, but that it is not sustainable if there isn't an environment that is conducive to encouraging the team philosophy/team success.

 

[Highlander]

You look at our fourth line and go oh my god, look at the Ducks  with Rafi Torres and our old Mike Brown storming the LA net. We could have had Torres at one point for hello. He and Brown are great skaters for such big s__t disturbers and we sat with the Freezer and Molten all year.
Why didn't RC see that an active skating fourth line could have potted some goals, intimitated some teams and spelled relief for an obviously overworked first line.
We have some players that could work in this role, Brolldozer, Komorav (if we can sign him) and get a fourth line that terrorizes the enemy, not put them to sleep.

 

[Corn Flake]

Most Leafs fans wanted Brown gone when he was here and were all happy when he was dumped.

 

[Redleaf]

Most Leafs fans wanted Brown gone when he was here and were all happy when he was dumped.

And we all know fans are right all the time. 

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Most Leafs fans wanted Brown gone when he was here and were all happy when he was dumped.

I don't think most necessarily wanted him gone, but generally didn't think it was a big deal and were glad to get something back for him.

 

[Corn Flake]

Most Leafs fans wanted Brown gone when he was here and were all happy when he was dumped.

I don't think most necessarily wanted him gone, but generally didn't think it was a big deal and were glad to get something back for him.

Pretty sure the general theme of a lot of comments on him were "useless pylon", etc.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Most Leafs fans wanted Brown gone when he was here and were all happy when he was dumped.

I don't think most necessarily wanted him gone, but generally didn't think it was a big deal and were glad to get something back for him.

Pretty sure the general theme of a lot of comments on him were "useless pylon", etc.

Didn't seem that way at all from a quick read through the first few pages of the thread where he was traded, which is what my response was based on.  Doesn't really matter though.

 

[Corn Flake]

Most Leafs fans wanted Brown gone when he was here and were all happy when he was dumped.

I don't think most necessarily wanted him gone, but generally didn't think it was a big deal and were glad to get something back for him.

Pretty sure the general theme of a lot of comments on him were "useless pylon", etc.

Didn't seem that way at all from a quick read through the first few pages of the thread where he was traded, which is what my response was based on.  Doesn't really matter though.

ok ok ok so yeah it wasn't all that harsh.

http://www.tmlfans.ca/community/index.php?topic=1479.0

I'm probably mashing the Mclaren chatter together with the Brown trade.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Most Leafs fans wanted Brown gone when he was here and were all happy when he was dumped.

I don't think most necessarily wanted him gone, but generally didn't think it was a big deal and were glad to get something back for him.

Pretty sure the general theme of a lot of comments on him were "useless pylon", etc.

Didn't seem that way at all from a quick read through the first few pages of the thread where he was traded, which is what my response was based on.  Doesn't really matter though.

ok ok ok so yeah it wasn't all that harsh.

http://www.tmlfans.ca/community/index.php?topic=1479.0

I'm probably mashing the Mclaren chatter together with the Brown trade.

That we can agree on!

 

[Highlander]

Brown was a completely servicable 4th liner whose chemistry right  now with Torres is creating havoc in LA.
Would have been a better option that the Freezer or Molten

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Brown was pretty useless in the 12 games he played for the Leafs the season he was traded. Although granted that was a small sample size and he was playing on a Randy Carlyle 4th line so the minutes were very limited too. I certainly don't want to get into a Wilson vs. Carlyle debate revolving around Mike Brown but I think he was a more effective player pre-Carlyle.

All-in-all though I was pretty surprised/happy to see us get a 4th rounder in return for him.

 

[Corn Flake]

Brown was a completely servicable 4th liner whose chemistry right  now with Torres is creating havoc in LA.
Would have been a better option that the Freezer or Molten

Last year our 4th line did similar things on most nights and it was a key part of the team identity that we have completely lost.  Komarov was the straw that stirred that drink on most nights I think.

 

[AvroArrow]

Last year our 4th line did similar things on most nights and it was a key part of the team identity that we have completely lost.  Komarov was the straw that stirred that drink on most nights I think.

Man, I want that guy back in a Leafs uniform so bad...

 

[Corn Flake]

Last year our 4th line did similar things on most nights and it was a key part of the team identity that we have completely lost.  Komarov was the straw that stirred that drink on most nights I think.

Man, I want that guy back in a Leafs uniform so bad...

Yup. I would bring him back as the 4th line centre, replacing McClement, put Bodie and maybe Broll on his wings and see what kind of forechecking madness that trio can create.

 

[bustaheims]

Brown was pretty useless in the 12 games he played for the Leafs the season he was traded. Although granted that was a small sample size and he was playing on a Randy Carlyle 4th line so the minutes were very limited too. I certainly don't want to get into a Wilson vs. Carlyle debate revolving around Mike Brown but I think he was a more effective player pre-Carlyle.

All-in-all though I was pretty surprised/happy to see us get a 4th rounder in return for him.

I wonder if he felt like he had to fight more under Carlyle - kind of like what happened with Ashton early this season. Brown was also much more reckless in those last 12 games with the Leafs - picking up almost as many penalty minutes as he had in the entire previous season and more than he had in the season before that. He's much more effective when he plays a more controlled physical game, and he definitely got away from that before the Leafs moved him to Edmonton.

 

[Britishbulldog]

Brown was pretty useless in the 12 games he played for the Leafs the season he was traded. Although granted that was a small sample size and he was playing on a Randy Carlyle 4th line so the minutes were very limited too. I certainly don't want to get into a Wilson vs. Carlyle debate revolving around Mike Brown but I think he was a more effective player pre-Carlyle.

All-in-all though I was pretty surprised/happy to see us get a 4th rounder in return for him.

I wonder if he felt like he had to fight more under Carlyle - kind of like what happened with Ashton early this season. Brown was also much more reckless in those last 12 games with the Leafs - picking up almost as many penalty minutes as he had in the entire previous season and more than he had in the season before that. He's much more effective when he plays a more controlled physical game, and he definitely got away from that before the Leafs moved him to Edmonton.

I was basically saying that in a post that I guess didn't send as I was leaving my office.

Earlier I had liked Mike Brown as a Leaf because he was a great skater, hit like a freight train and could score the odd goal but those 1st 12 games he was in so many pointless fights and momentum killing staged fights that I was actually wishing he would be sat out.