Your TML Rebuild Plan

[Kin]

When's the last time a player was drafted #1 overall and didn't make the NHL in his first season?

 

[Redleaf]

What would we have to give up to get a D-man (say Vatanen) and goalie (Andersson) from Anaheim?

Pittsburgh's 1st, JVR, two good prospects not named Marner or Nylander and a lower pick(s)?

I was wondering if there was a deal to be made at the draft for a top 15 pick if sergachev is still sitting there.

for instance could bozak or gardiner and pitts first plus one of the seconds be enough to get a top 10 or 15 pick?  I'm not sure.  or maybe along the same lines as you are suggesting to get shattenkirk and allen out of st louis maybe a similar package?

I don't know if it would do it but I'm sure the leafs will try to be active.  Last year they just decided to move down out of the first round and could do the same this year, or they could probably move up a bit if someone they targeted was sitting there.

I can see trading Bozak, even Kadri for a top 2 D, however, why does some fans want to trade Gardiner?  :-\  Now that he's out from under the Carlyle blanket, he's been improving steadily, thanks to Babcock. 

same reason that others want to trade jvr...you have to give to get.

There's another saying, the more you give the more you get. With that line of thinking why not trade Marner Nylander or Rielly?

 

[harps64]

Just thinking what the chances are of Matthews playing for the Marlies and Marner playing in Europe next year are?

Same as McDavid in Europe or Eichel playing for Buffalo's AHL team.

Not that I disagree with you, but whats the advantage of them playing in the NHL next year? Whats the rush? Why not let Marner play in Europe and develop, get stronger and get used to playing against men? Why not give Matthews half a season in the AHL?
If the plan is to grab another top prospect next year, maybe another #1, or at least a top 3, maybe it could be an option.

 

[bustaheims]

When's the last time a player was drafted #1 overall and didn't make the NHL in his first season?

Erik Johnson, about a decade ago.

 

[harps64]

When's the last time a player was drafted #1 overall and didn't make the NHL in his first season?

Erik Johnson, about a decade ago.

Joe Thornton....maybe?

 

[mr grieves]

Just thinking what the chances are of Matthews playing for the Marlies and Marner playing in Europe next year are?

Same as McDavid in Europe or Eichel playing for Buffalo's AHL team.

Not that I disagree with you, but whats the advantage of them playing in the NHL next year? Whats the rush? Why not let Marner play in Europe and develop, get stronger and get used to playing against men? Why not give Matthews half a season in the AHL?
If the plan is to grab another top prospect next year, maybe another #1, or at least a top 3, maybe it could be an option.

If they leave the goalie situation status quo, there's a pretty good chance of that happening anyway.

But I don't think they'll put their thumb on the scale by stashing players like that. We've heard management say, and seen them follow through on saying, that prospects will be in the NHL when they're NHL-ready.

Are there many players with Marner's D+1 OHL season who didn't make the jump to the NHL the next season? 

 

[Kin]

When's the last time a player was drafted #1 overall and didn't make the NHL in his first season?

Erik Johnson, about a decade ago.

Has it ever happened with a forward? Ovechkin aside.

 

[Kin]

Not that I disagree with you, but whats the advantage of them playing in the NHL next year? Whats the rush? Why not let Marner play in Europe and develop, get stronger and get used to playing against men? Why not give Matthews half a season in the AHL?
If the plan is to grab another top prospect next year, maybe another #1, or at least a top 3, maybe it could be an option.

Well, for starters, you wouldn't be asking a 19 year old kid to go live in Europe for a year and spend a crucial year of his development under a coach and team that are likely to put their own interests over his.

 

[harps64]

Not that I disagree with you, but whats the advantage of them playing in the NHL next year? Whats the rush? Why not let Marner play in Europe and develop, get stronger and get used to playing against men? Why not give Matthews half a season in the AHL?
If the plan is to grab another top prospect next year, maybe another #1, or at least a top 3, maybe it could be an option.

Well, for starters, you wouldn't be asking a 19 year old kid to go live in Europe for a year and spend a crucial year of his development under a coach and team that are likely to put their own interests over his.

It seemed to work for Matthews...No?
Its Europe, not Mongolia or North Korea. Last time I checked, Europe had developed 1 or 2 decent players.

 

[Kin]

It seemed to work for Matthews...No?

Matthews didn't go over there to develop. If he'd been draft eligible last year he'd have gone in the top 3. He went there to make money.

Its Europe, not Mongolia or North Korea. Last time I checked, Europe had developed 1 or 2 decent players.

Yeah. Typically Europeans who are from the countries they're playing in, who speak the language and don't have to adjust to the culture.

The Leafs would have no say in how Marner would be used. You want the coach of HC Frolunda deciding if Marner is getting PP time or not? There's absolutely nothing wrong with the Leafs doing with Marner what Edmonton did with Draisaitl.

 

[mr grieves]

Not that I disagree with you, but whats the advantage of them playing in the NHL next year? Whats the rush? Why not let Marner play in Europe and develop, get stronger and get used to playing against men? Why not give Matthews half a season in the AHL?
If the plan is to grab another top prospect next year, maybe another #1, or at least a top 3, maybe it could be an option.

Well, for starters, you wouldn't be asking a 19 year old kid to go live in Europe for a year and spend a crucial year of his development under a coach and team that are likely to put their own interests over his.

It seemed to work for Matthews...No?
Its Europe, not Mongolia or North Korea. Last time I checked, Europe had developed 1 or 2 decent players.

Matthews wasn't eligible to play in the NHL. If had been born 2 days earlier, he likely would've been drafted by Buffalo and played for them last year. In the NHL.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

When's the last time a player was drafted #1 overall and didn't make the NHL in his first season?

Erik Johnson, about a decade ago.

Has it ever happened with a forward? Ovechkin aside.

Going back to 1990 I haven't seen one.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

When's the last time a player was drafted #1 overall and didn't make the NHL in his first season?

Erik Johnson, about a decade ago.

Has it ever happened with a forward? Ovechkin aside.

Going back to 1990 I haven't seen one.

Couldn't have gone back another year or two man? Happened to Modano and Sundin in 1988 and 89. Looks like they're the only cases since expansion in 67.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

When's the last time a player was drafted #1 overall and didn't make the NHL in his first season?

Erik Johnson, about a decade ago.

Has it ever happened with a forward? Ovechkin aside.

Going back to 1990 I haven't seen one.

Couldn't have gone back another year or two man? Happened to Modano and Sundin in 1988 and 89. Looks like they're the only cases since expansion in 67.

Come on man, I'm trying to keep it relevant.  I went back to 1990 but it would be ridiculous to try to say 1989 or 1988 is relevant to today.  1990 is the last relevant year. It is just a coincidence that it is a nice even number.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

When's the last time a player was drafted #1 overall and didn't make the NHL in his first season?

Erik Johnson, about a decade ago.

Has it ever happened with a forward? Ovechkin aside.

Going back to 1990 I haven't seen one.

Couldn't have gone back another year or two man? Happened to Modano and Sundin in 1988 and 89. Looks like they're the only cases since expansion in 67.

Come on man, I'm trying to keep it relevant.  I went back to 1990 but it would be ridiculous to try to say 1989 or 1988 is relevant to today.  1990 is the last relevant year. It is just a coincidence that it is a nice even number.

I apparently needed to up my E/P on that one.

 

[harps64]

It seemed to work for Matthews...No?

Matthews didn't go over there to develop. If he'd been draft eligible last year he'd have gone in the top 3. He went there to make money.

I somehow doubt it was the money that lured him there.
He went there to develop and experience a different style of game. He's not the first and only North American player to ever do this, lots of former NHL players play in the Swiss league, even current drafted players from Florida and Washington play there.

Its Europe, not Mongolia or North Korea. Last time I checked, Europe had developed 1 or 2 decent players.

Yeah. Typically Europeans who are from the countries they're playing in, who speak the language and don't have to adjust to the culture.

The Leafs would have no say in how Marner would be used. You want the coach of HC Frolunda deciding if Marner is getting PP time or not? There's absolutely nothing wrong with the Leafs doing with Marner what Edmonton did with Draisaitl.

Whats wrong with learning different cultures? it could be a positive, not a negative. You make it sound like an unenjoyable chore when it could be the opposite.
I assume the Leafs would be able to find the right setup if they think it would add to the players development.
Anyways....like I said......options.

 

[Kin]

Whats wrong with learning different cultures? 

Nothing. It's a lovely thing to do. It can, however, be an additional challenge for a young person who is already knee deep in the challenge of trying to be one of the top hockey players in the world. 

I think the fact that no team has ever done this with one of their top prospects should tell you something.

 

[McGarnagle]

I could be wrong, but I thought I heard something on the radio about how Marner couldn't be shipped off to Europe anyway, due to the nature of the Knights owning his rights. It's either the NHL, or the OHL - as is my understanding.

I'm thinking they'll give him every chance to make the club, and then loan him out to the WJC regardless.

 

[McGarnagle]

Anyways, my likely unpopular rebuild would be the following:

1) Stopgap UFA goalie signing. Reimer would be fine, or an Enroth/Gustavsson. Barring that, a deal for a younger goalie with some potential. No Stamkos. Possibly a veteran D on a short deal for depth.

2) Trade JVR, Bozak, possibly Komorov at the draft for picks or prospects. 

3) Look to exploit another team with a cap problem. Take on a brian bickell or the like for a return.

Field a young team and start coaching them as if they will be part of the future. They'll still be a lottery team due to lack of experience and elite goaltending. Figure out which players are fitting the roles, draft another good prospect, and then take a bigger step next off-season.

 

[mr grieves]

My plan:
1. Trade whatever you can of Bozak, Komarov, the expiring UFAs at the draft for picks
2. Take Matthews
3. Trade JvR, picks, B prospect to upgrade defense, either moving into middle of first round or targeting an RFA defenseman (Vatanen?)
5. Use later picks to add to defense, goalie prospect pool
6. Try to sign Stamkos, walk away if it's going over $10m
7. Trade for promising, cheap young goalie or sign stopgap vet
8. Bargain bin UFAs!
9. Take on bad contract for picks from contender, as cap space allows
10. More PTOs! Competition at camp, option of keeping Marlies down if they aren't ready
11. Year of experimentation with core of Stamkos, Matthews, Nylander, Marner, Kadri, Rielly, Gardiner, Zaitsev, and new D (if RFA in trade).
12. Ice young team, see what happens.
13. Let whoever go to the World Juniors.
14. Move out whichever of the expiring UFAs you can at the deadline. Work in some Marlies.
15. Enjoy 9+ picks in 2017 draft