2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

[CarltonTheBear]

https://twitter.com/FriedgeHNIC/status/1192487704245809152

 

[herman]

Early waive since we still have to move one off the roster for Hyman?s activation.

 

[Highlander]

Wouldn't it be weird if Jets picked up Petan again?  Probably landing spot, Edmonton.
Marincin could help out someone. Who needs some Defensive help...Oh ya, Toronto..LOL

 

[Coco-puffs]

This is all a bit of a mess. 

What especially sucks is that we're only like just a little over $200k shy from being able to carry a 22nd player. Like if we didn't give Ceci that dumb $200k raise and Marner ended his AAV with 16 instead of 93 we might have been ok.

I agree with you, and I think Dubas didn't get enough shit for the stupid extra $200K for Ceci knowing full well he wasn't even worth his qualifying offer.  Big dumb move, and I really don't care about whatever his rationale may have been there.

But at the same time, a few hundred grand off of Marner's deal, or Johnsson's, or Kapanen, or more retained for Barrie, or even Matthews' deal could have been shaved a bit, would have helped...but just because Marner was the last piece to sign doesn't really mean that it's Marner's deal that made the problem happen...unless you believe that Marner shouldn't have been signed to that high of a number in the first place.

Gonna come out of the woodwork to nitpick.... Barrie already has the maximum amount retained by Colorado.

 

[Frank E]

This is all a bit of a mess. 

What especially sucks is that we're only like just a little over $200k shy from being able to carry a 22nd player. Like if we didn't give Ceci that dumb $200k raise and Marner ended his AAV with 16 instead of 93 we might have been ok.

I agree with you, and I think Dubas didn't get enough shit for the stupid extra $200K for Ceci knowing full well he wasn't even worth his qualifying offer.  Big dumb move, and I really don't care about whatever his rationale may have been there.

But at the same time, a few hundred grand off of Marner's deal, or Johnsson's, or Kapanen, or more retained for Barrie, or even Matthews' deal could have been shaved a bit, would have helped...but just because Marner was the last piece to sign doesn't really mean that it's Marner's deal that made the problem happen...unless you believe that Marner shouldn't have been signed to that high of a number in the first place.

Gonna come out of the woodwork to nitpick.... Barrie already has the maximum amount retained by Colorado.

Shut up Coco. Go back to your hole.

 

[herman]

Gonna wonder aloud about what people were realistically expecting the Leafs to be able to do this offseason staring down Marleau's 3rd year, Zaitsev's contract/performance, and Marner's contract post-94-pt season, all the while needing to improve the defense with Gardiner and Hainsey coming off the books.

Keep in mind that a team's season opening lineup is (usually) a far cry from its season-ending one.

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/JeffVeillette/status/1191822566849155077
Thread

 

[Guilt Trip]

Gonna wonder aloud about what people were realistically expecting the Leafs to be able to do this offseason staring down Marleau's 3rd year, Zaitsev's contract/performance, and Marner's contract post-94-pt season, all the while needing to improve the defense with Gardiner and Hainsey coming off the books.

I think Dubas did a great job getting rid of those contracts, especially Marleau's. Yeah CC is getting too much but so would Z for another 4 years or so.

 

[Coco-puffs]

Gonna wonder aloud about what people were realistically expecting the Leafs to be able to do this offseason staring down Marleau's 3rd year, Zaitsev's contract/performance, and Marner's contract post-94-pt season, all the while needing to improve the defense with Gardiner and Hainsey coming off the books.

While the offseason was not a total clusterf**k, I think its realistic to expect:

1.  You won't overpay your 94-pt guy by at least 1M per season
2.  End up in a position where you can only have one spare player mostly because of #1
3.  End up in a position where you limit yourself to league minimum backup goalie options.  Decent goalie with 950k salary comes on waivers, nope gotta pass on him because he won't fit.

Not overpaying Ceci by 200k is also on the list of questionable decisions, but I'm not sure I see the math CtB was coming up with where that extra 200k is what is limiting us to only one spare.  With the roster as expected with Hyman back and one of Shore/Spezza/Timashov also waived/traded we are still in the 81.3M ballpark on active salaries (ie not including the LTIR guys).  An extra 200k on Ceci doesn't make room for another guy.  (It would however allow us to use a 1M backup goalie)

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Not overpaying Ceci by 200k is also on the list of questionable decisions, but I'm not sure I see the math CtB was coming up with where that extra 200k is what is limiting us to only one spare.  With the roster as expected with Hyman back and one of Shore/Spezza/Timashov also waived/traded we are still in the 81.3M ballpark on active salaries (ie not including the LTIR guys).  An extra 200k on Ceci doesn't make room for another guy.  (It would however allow us to use a 1M backup goalie)

Hmm, I coulda sworn when I was looking at a Marincin/Petan/Shore-less roster on CF earlier today it was showing just under $500k in available cap space. Now it says $200k. Weird. Maybe I demoted a wrong player or something. Or I just need my eyes checked.

 

[Coco-puffs]

In all, I think Dubas did a good job overall.  Managed to keep all of the RFA's of consequence for at least 3 years when everyone expected us to lose at least one, but that did come at the cost of a 1st round pick.  I'm fine with hurting us later to keep the current team intact.  You have more time to recover on that one with overseas/college free-agents and player development.

Got rid of cap (and on ice) negative Zaitsev, although for at least this year the returned player isn't really helping either of those situations.  Ceci's deal is definitely a head-scratcher- they could have handed that differently for sure and I believe they should have.  But beyond, it looks like a very good move.

The Marner deal is the one where I feel he did the poorest job.  I get the arguments that if you are gonna overpay anyone, make it your star players.  But its hard to swallow when nobody else is doing it.

 

[Bates]

In all, I think Dubas did a good job overall.  Managed to keep all of the RFA's of consequence for at least 3 years when everyone expected us to lose at least one, but that did come at the cost of a 1st round pick.  I'm fine with hurting us later to keep the current team intact.  You have more time to recover on that one with overseas/college free-agents and player development.

Got rid of cap (and on ice) negative Zaitsev, although for at least this year the returned player isn't really helping either of those situations.  Ceci's deal is definitely a head-scratcher- they could have handed that differently for sure and I believe they should have.  But beyond, it looks like a very good move.

The Marner deal is the one where I feel he did the poorest job.  I get the arguments that if you are gonna overpay anyone, make it your star players.  But its hard to swallow when nobody else is doing it.

I think the players won on term and dollars so essentially Dubas was not able to get anything for the team except shorter service guarantee. Our window got a lot shorter and when you combine that with short term Cap crunch it created I think Dubas lost the last year with ease.

 

[dappleganger]

In terms of the d-man trades, bringing in Ceci at the subtraction of Zaitsev and Hainsey made sense. Bringing in two defensemen that struggled playing defense on their previous hasn't worked but I think it was worth a shot.

 

[Coco-puffs]

In all, I think Dubas did a good job overall.  Managed to keep all of the RFA's of consequence for at least 3 years when everyone expected us to lose at least one, but that did come at the cost of a 1st round pick.  I'm fine with hurting us later to keep the current team intact.  You have more time to recover on that one with overseas/college free-agents and player development.

Got rid of cap (and on ice) negative Zaitsev, although for at least this year the returned player isn't really helping either of those situations.  Ceci's deal is definitely a head-scratcher- they could have handed that differently for sure and I believe they should have.  But beyond, it looks like a very good move.

The Marner deal is the one where I feel he did the poorest job.  I get the arguments that if you are gonna overpay anyone, make it your star players.  But its hard to swallow when nobody else is doing it.

I think the players won on term and dollars so essentially Dubas was not able to get anything for the team except shorter service guarantee. Our window got a lot shorter and when you combine that with short term Cap crunch it created I think Dubas lost the last year with ease.

1.  Nylander didn't win on dollars IMO.  6 years isn't the player winning on term either, as almost all the guys in his comparables signed for that term (Pasta being the most obvious).  The only thing Dubas lost on that one IMO was timing.  It shouldn't have taken until December 1st.  Otherwise, its going to be the best deal he signed and I don't say that as a negative.

2.  Matthews gave up dollars for his wish to go shorter term.  He was looking for McDavid+ money for 8 years.  I don't think Dubas "lost" that one, but he definitely didn't win it.  I'm not sure it was possible to win that one. 

3.  All of Kerfoot, Mango, and Kapanen were good deals at probably the best terms for each of them.  I don't think Dubas lost a single one of those deals, in fact, I'd say he won them even if they aren't huge wins.

4.  Marner he definitely lost on dollars for a 6 yr term, but the 6 yr term is not really the problem there if you ask me.

 

[Bates]

In all, I think Dubas did a good job overall.  Managed to keep all of the RFA's of consequence for at least 3 years when everyone expected us to lose at least one, but that did come at the cost of a 1st round pick.  I'm fine with hurting us later to keep the current team intact.  You have more time to recover on that one with overseas/college free-agents and player development.

Got rid of cap (and on ice) negative Zaitsev, although for at least this year the returned player isn't really helping either of those situations.  Ceci's deal is definitely a head-scratcher- they could have handed that differently for sure and I believe they should have.  But beyond, it looks like a very good move.

The Marner deal is the one where I feel he did the poorest job.  I get the arguments that if you are gonna overpay anyone, make it your star players.  But its hard to swallow when nobody else is doing it.

I think the players won on term and dollars so essentially Dubas was not able to get anything for the team except shorter service guarantee. Our window got a lot shorter and when you combine that with short term Cap crunch it created I think Dubas lost the last year with ease.

1.  Nylander didn't win on dollars IMO.  6 years isn't the player winning on term either, as almost all the guys in his comparables signed for that term (Pasta being the most obvious).  The only thing Dubas lost on that one IMO was timing.  It shouldn't have taken until December 1st.  Otherwise, its going to be the best deal he signed and I don't say that as a negative.

2.  Matthews gave up dollars for his wish to go shorter term.  He was looking for McDavid+ money for 8 years.  I don't think Dubas "lost" that one, but he definitely didn't win it.  I'm not sure it was possible to win that one. 

3.  All of Kerfoot, Mango, and Kapanen were good deals at probably the best terms for each of them.  I don't think Dubas lost a single one of those deals, in fact, I'd say he won them even if they aren't huge wins.

4.  Marner he definitely lost on dollars for a 6 yr term, but the 6 yr term is not really the problem there if you ask me.

In the 2nd year of a 6 year deal Nylander is heading for less than 60 points. Obviously that can change but as is we are in year two and Nylander has not earned his Cap hit yet. Matthews has not shown himself to be in the conversation with McDavid, or the NHL's elite class for that matter. As with Nylander that can change. The 3rd liners I'm not really concerned about. Marner needs to be a lot better to be anywhere near his contract. I give Dubas no wins as of now with the big 3 and presently sitting at 3 losses. Combine that with no money to improve the team and here we sit in mediocrity.  And we have 4 more seasons with tge 3 signed.

 

[herman]

Fun question for the Capologists on the board:

Player on Team A, which is in full-season LTIR, is traded to Team B mid-season before the deadline (i.e. today), which does not have LTIR.

Full year cap comes off Team A. What would the cap hit read as for Team B? Does it revert to daily hit calculations, i.e. 36/182 days * annual cap hit left?

Asking for a friend*

* who wants to trade Ceci to Winnipeg

 

[Bullfrog]

In the 2nd year of a 6 year deal Nylander is heading for less than 60 points. Obviously that can change but as is we are in year two and Nylander has not earned his Cap hit yet. Matthews has not shown himself to be in the conversation with McDavid, or the NHL's elite class for that matter. As with Nylander that can change. The 3rd liners I'm not really concerned about. Marner needs to be a lot better to be anywhere near his contract. I give Dubas no wins as of now with the big 3 and presently sitting at 3 losses. Combine that with no money to improve the team and here we sit in mediocrity.  And we have 4 more seasons with tge 3 signed.

Surely, you must be joking here.

 

[Bates]

In the 2nd year of a 6 year deal Nylander is heading for less than 60 points. Obviously that can change but as is we are in year two and Nylander has not earned his Cap hit yet. Matthews has not shown himself to be in the conversation with McDavid, or the NHL's elite class for that matter. As with Nylander that can change. The 3rd liners I'm not really concerned about. Marner needs to be a lot better to be anywhere near his contract. I give Dubas no wins as of now with the big 3 and presently sitting at 3 losses. Combine that with no money to improve the team and here we sit in mediocrity.  And we have 4 more seasons with tge 3 signed.

Surely, you must be joking here.

20% of the way through a season and has not dominated a game yet. I don't see how that can be elite?

 

[Bullfrog]

So, you're basing his "eliteness" on a 16-game sample (during which he's scored 12 goals; good for 3rd in the league) where he hasn't dominated, as defined by you?

Do I really need to explain how weak that argument is?

 

[Bates]

So, you're basing his "eliteness" on a 16-game sample (during which he's scored 12 goals; good for 3rd in the league) where he hasn't dominated, as defined by you?

Do I really need to explain how weak that argument is?

You watch the games? Matthews has not been an elite player yet this season, that is the timeframe being discussed. Just scoring goals in itself doesn't make one an elite player. I doubt you count James Neal as elite.