2020-2021 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

[herman]

https://twitter.com/dalter/status/1364306070533996545

 

[Guilt Trip]

https://twitter.com/dalter/status/1364306070533996545

That's cool. Like Fraser

 

[herman]

https://theathletic.com/2399283/2021/02/24/kyle-dubas-big-find-maple-leafs-justin-holl

Given the way Babcock has been talking lately, and what stories people around the team have brought up from back then*, Justin Holl was absolutely scratched specifically out of spite for Dubas. He could have easily played over Polak/Ozhiganov.

*
https://twitter.com/JhanHky/status/1364420777517453313

 

[L K]

So that would have been the year we had Jake Gardiner's broken back on the 3rd pairing?

 

[OldTimeHockey]

https://theathletic.com/2399283/2021/02/24/kyle-dubas-big-find-maple-leafs-justin-holl

Given the way Babcock has been talking lately, and what stories people around the team have brought up from back then*, Justin Holl was absolutely scratched specifically out of spite for Dubas. He could have easily played over Polak/Ozhiganov.

*
https://twitter.com/JhanHky/status/1364420777517453313

I don't see why this story is that big of a deal. He obviously viewed Dermott as the number 6 defensemen. So, if you're bringing in another #6 defenseman, should you sit our your #5?
I'm confused by this hate on for Babcock from the hockey world. I mean, I get that he was apparently not a nice person, but other than that, who really gives a crap. He takes a job at a University and all the media has been talking about for the past 2 days is just how much of an jacka$$ he is. We get it. Can we move on now?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I don't see why this story is that big of a deal. He obviously viewed Dermott as the number 6 defensemen. So, if you're bringing in another #6 defenseman, should you sit our your #5?

Post from me the day Jensen was traded to the Caps:

Never understood why the Leafs were linked to Jensen or any other D right now. None of the current top-6 defencemen are sitting, and the odds of any of them being shipped out are pretty slim.

Our defence at that point was Rielly-Hainsey, Muzzin-Zaitsev, Gardiner-Dermott. Regardless of how we felt about them neither Hainsey or Zaitsev were getting scratched. Gardiner had back problems almost that entire season it felt like as LK noted, but he wasn't coming out of the line-up either even if he wasn't 100%. So yeah, the Jensen thing isn't that outrageous.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

He takes a job at a University and all the media has been talking about for the past 2 days is just how much of an jacka$$ he is. We get it. Can we move on now?

With that said, I'm not sure I 100% agree with this part of your post. It's Babcock himself who is continually putting himself back in the picture by doing multiple redemption-style interviews with the media where he says whatever he wants and isn't really pushed about all the crap he did. The media is going very easy on him.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

He takes a job at a University and all the media has been talking about for the past 2 days is just how much of an jacka$$ he is. We get it. Can we move on now?

With that said, I'm not sure I 100% agree with this part of your post. It's Babcock himself who is continually putting himself back in the picture by doing multiple redemption-style interviews with the media where he says whatever he wants and isn't really pushed about all the crap he did. The media is going very easy on him.

You are probably correct. I'm just tired of reading and hearing about how terrible of a hockey coach he was/is. But, like me being soft on goalies, I'm also soft on coaches as I think a handful of yappy hockey players can pretty quickly ruin a coach's reputation. I'm not saying Babcock is innocent. I just don't give a flying crap one way or another.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

I don't see why this story is that big of a deal. He obviously viewed Dermott as the number 6 defensemen. So, if you're bringing in another #6 defenseman, should you sit our your #5?

Post from me the day Jensen was traded to the Caps:

Never understood why the Leafs were linked to Jensen or any other D right now. None of the current top-6 defencemen are sitting, and the odds of any of them being shipped out are pretty slim.

Our defence at that point was Rielly-Hainsey, Muzzin-Zaitsev, Gardiner-Dermott. Regardless of how we felt about them neither Hainsey or Zaitsev were getting scratched. Gardiner had back problems almost that entire season it felt like as LK noted, but he wasn't coming out of the line-up either even if he wasn't 100%. So yeah, the Jensen thing isn't that outrageous.

Dermott continues to barely be in this line up. Babcock may have been pretty bang on in regards to where Dermott sat.

 

[Guilt Trip]

He takes a job at a University and all the media has been talking about for the past 2 days is just how much of an jacka$$ he is. We get it. Can we move on now?

With that said, I'm not sure I 100% agree with this part of your post. It's Babcock himself who is continually putting himself back in the picture by doing multiple redemption-style interviews with the media where he says whatever he wants and isn't really pushed about all the crap he did. The media is going very easy on him.

You are probably correct. I'm just tired of reading and hearing about how terrible of a hockey coach he was/is. But, like me being soft on goalies, I'm also soft on coaches as I think a handful of yappy hockey players can pretty quickly ruin a coach's reputation. I'm not saying Babcock is innocent. I just don't give a flying crap one way or another.

It's well documented that he's done some terrible things. My issue with him is that he hasn't once said he was sorry for what he did to players, especially Franzen. That's inexcusable in my books.

 

[L K]

He takes a job at a University and all the media has been talking about for the past 2 days is just how much of an jacka$$ he is. We get it. Can we move on now?

With that said, I'm not sure I 100% agree with this part of your post. It's Babcock himself who is continually putting himself back in the picture by doing multiple redemption-style interviews with the media where he says whatever he wants and isn't really pushed about all the crap he did. The media is going very easy on him.

You are probably correct. I'm just tired of reading and hearing about how terrible of a hockey coach he was/is. But, like me being soft on goalies, I'm also soft on coaches as I think a handful of yappy hockey players can pretty quickly ruin a coach's reputation. I'm not saying Babcock is innocent. I just don't give a flying crap one way or another.

It's well documented that he's done some terrible things. My issue with him is that he hasn't once said he was sorry for what he did to players, especially Franzen. That's inexcusable in my books.

"I know who I am, I know what i've done.  Some of this (criticism from around the NHL) doesn't pass the smell test at all"

Yep.  Babcock can go crawl under a bridge.

 

[Guilt Trip]

He takes a job at a University and all the media has been talking about for the past 2 days is just how much of an jacka$$ he is. We get it. Can we move on now?

With that said, I'm not sure I 100% agree with this part of your post. It's Babcock himself who is continually putting himself back in the picture by doing multiple redemption-style interviews with the media where he says whatever he wants and isn't really pushed about all the crap he did. The media is going very easy on him.

You are probably correct. I'm just tired of reading and hearing about how terrible of a hockey coach he was/is. But, like me being soft on goalies, I'm also soft on coaches as I think a handful of yappy hockey players can pretty quickly ruin a coach's reputation. I'm not saying Babcock is innocent. I just don't give a flying crap one way or another.

It's well documented that he's done some terrible things. My issue with him is that he hasn't once said he was sorry for what he did to players, especially Franzen. That's inexcusable in my books.

"I know who I am, I know what i've done.  Some of this (criticism from around the NHL) doesn't pass the smell test at all"

Yep.  Babcock can go crawl under a bridge.

Not my fault Mike.

 

[Deebo]

You are probably correct. I'm just tired of reading and hearing about how terrible of a hockey coach he was/is. But, like me being soft on goalies, I'm also soft on coaches as I think a handful of yappy hockey players can pretty quickly ruin a coach's reputation. I'm not saying Babcock is innocent. I just don't give a flying crap one way or another.

I've seen more players' reputations ruined by asshole coaches than coaches' reputations because ruined by yappy players.

Babcock is the one out there talking and bringing attention to himself. If he puts himself in the news then people are going to discuss what he says, whether or not you care about the discussion or not.

 

[herman]

I defended Babcock-coaching in the past when rebuilding. I was not huge on the obstinance and pretty clear insubordination towards the end of 2019.

Dumping on Leivo and Holl and setting them up to fail because they were Dubas-guys is not good coaching or management. Cultivating a toxic environment really isn?t conducive to building a better performing team. It is literally submarining his own efforts.

People sweeping the b-hole behaviour under the rug because it makes them uncomfortable to confront is not helpful, especially not if it?s someone who purports to be a mental health advocate and mentor to up and coming coaches. I would be all for a redemption of someone who recognized the wrongdoing and made concrete steps to address those issues, but this is clearly not what is happening here.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Well I certainly touched on something here.

Like I said, I'm not excusing him of anytihng.

 

[Bender]

Well I certainly touched on something here.

Like I said, I'm not excusing him of anytihng.

You asked why there's scrutiny around Babcock being hired by a university and your position was "can't we move on?" And I think there's plenty of better arguments as to why he might not be the best pick for young, developing players and that he hasn't apologized and is even defiant for well documented transgressions (Franzen, Commodore, Marner, Holl etc.)

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Well I certainly touched on something here.

Like I said, I'm not excusing him of anytihng.

You asked why there's scrutiny around Babcock being hired by a university and your position was "can't we move on?" And I think there's plenty of better arguments as to why he might not be the best pick for young, developing players and that he hasn't apologized and is even defiant for well documented transgressions (Franzen, Commodore, Marner, Holl etc.)

I get it. He's an idiot. Perhaps I just tire of talking about idiots sooner than the average Joe. There's arseholes hired every day and some of them are in positions they shouldn't be.

And when I say just move on, I think he's an okay guy that was great with young players. I mean, I'm pretty tired of hearing about this pompous a$$. If Saskatchewan wants to hire him, that's on them. I guess I'm cold for not giving a crap if they do.

Note: I did not realize he started this "redemption tour"...and if that's the case, I just wish the tour would die quickly.

 

[Guilt Trip]

And when I say just move on, I think he's an okay guy that was great with young players.

You're entitled to think what you want but when NHLers come out and say he's a horrible human being, that doesn't say to me he's an okay guy.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

https://twitter.com/kristen_shilton/status/1365363353741361157

 

[bustaheims]

I wonder if Matthews' absence is more cautionary than anything else. Keep him out of practice as to not put unnecessary strain on his wrist, but he's still good to go for the game, and such. Hopefully.