Armchair GM 2016-2017

[herman]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-suitors-will-ante-van-riemsdyk/

10. A year ago, teams asked about James van Riemsdyk and were told he was not available. Now they?re being told, ?If you?re serious, ante up.? What it comes down to is this: van Riemsdyk is an unrestricted free agent after next season, and can be extended July 1. At some point, the Maple Leafs will decide if they are going to meet his price.

Van Riemsdyk is a scorer, he?s going to cash in somewhere. Toronto?s cap situation is pretty good for a couple of years, until the likes of Auston Matthews, Mitch Marner and William Nylander need their next contracts.

So that will be the decision. If they decide to deploy their wealth elsewhere, it?s going to be on the blueline. Van Riemsdyk could get you that help. But his value drops if you?re trading him with free-agency looming. So that?s why I think it?s gone from ?No,? to ?What have you got for us??

Per his reddit-AMA yesterday, James Mirtle is working on a piece about the JvR trade avenue; return will be similar in build to the Kessel deal. JvR (+ pot sweeteners) <--> young prospect on the rise (hopefully defense) + pick(s)/part(s).

Other than the Anaheim route, I would also venture Nashville as a pretty good trading option. Their window with Rinne is closing (some would say closed, thanks to Juuse Saros) but the West is significantly weakened this year. They are currently the only team in the West with a positive goal differential on the outside looking in, so an injection of a scoring winger could very well move them up to where they'd like to be. Their left side is currently Forsberg/Wilson/Arvidsson. Any one of Arvidsson, Saros, Girard, or even Ellis would interest me.

 

[Kin]

Was hoping we may be able to trade for a defensive prospect from the past draft or two. Provorov particularly (although I guess that's unrealistic now). Are there any others we may he able to get in a trade?

I don't want to put too fine a point on it but what you might be able to get in a trade is solely determined by what you're willing to give up in a trade. The Hall-Larsson trade though suggests that it's not a great market for dealing for defensemen.

 

[Kin]

Other than the Anaheim route, I would also venture Nashville as a pretty good trading option. Their window with Rinne is closing (some would say closed, thanks to Juuse Saros) but the West is significantly weakened this year. They are currently the only team in the West with a positive goal differential on the outside looking in, so an injection of a scoring winger could very well move them up to where they'd like to be. Their left side is currently Forsberg/Wilson/Arvidsson. Any one of Arvidsson, Saros, Girard, or even Ellis would interest me.

Just cannibalize their last draft. JVR for Fabbro, Girard and Allard.

 

[sneakyray]

I gotta say that maybe the leafs have just as much a need at centre than on defence.  After matthews, kadri and bozak they have NOBODY of note.

and if they're thinking of trading bozak it'll even be worse.

So I wouldn't be too upset if they traded jvr for a young good centre if it was a better player than the defensemand they could get.

 

[herman]

If that is true, then yes #ThankDubas

Previous administration.

Gardiner signed July 29, 2014.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/gardiners-new-deal-suggests-a-shift/

"The long-term wasn?t something we thought of originally," said Nonis. "But (we) talked about it the past week and they had interest and once we did it, came together pretty quickly."

Let's see... what happened that week...

July 22: Kyle Dubas named Assistant General Manager
https://www.nhl.com/mapleleafs/news/leafs-name-kyle-dubas-assistant-general-manager/c-726837

While he wasn't directly involved in the negotiations, I'm pretty sure Dubas had some input at the table when Nonis and Shanahan were discussing their decision on how to handle Gardiner (and Carlyle's issues with him).

 

[Deebo]

I gotta say that maybe the leafs have just as much a need at centre than on defence.  After matthews, kadri and bozak they have NOBODY of note.

I think they view Nylander as a centre, long term.

 

[Kin]

I gotta say that maybe the leafs have just as much a need at centre than on defence.  After matthews, kadri and bozak they have NOBODY of note.

How many do they need? If Matthews/Kadri are pretty set as 1 and 2 for the long term and Gauthier is in the mix for a #4 spot then having a good #3 doesn't really seem like a position of urgent need.

And that's before, as Deebo says, the long term question of where Nylander plays comes up.

 

[Kin]

While he wasn't directly involved in the negotiations, I'm pretty sure Dubas had some input at the table when Nonis and Shanahan were discussing their decision on how to handle Gardiner (and Carlyle's issues with him).

You're kind of reaching a bit here. One week on the job he's probably going to have minimal input on the structure of any significant extension especially given his age/experience.

It's ok to admit that once Nonis was allowed to do things the right way he did some fairly smart things.

 

[sneakyray]

I gotta say that maybe the leafs have just as much a need at centre than on defence.  After matthews, kadri and bozak they have NOBODY of note.

I think they view Nylander as a centre, long term.

What makes you think that?  the only times that they have used them there at the nhl level has been when they have had no other options. 

 

[herman]

Just cannibalize their last draft. JVR for Fabbro, Girard and Allard.

You don't want Rem Pitlick too?

Fun fact: there are three Pitlicks in the NHL circle: Lance, who played for Ottawa and Florida in the 90s/00s, his nephew Tyler with Edmonton now, and his son Rem, drafted this summer.

 

[Kin]

You don't want Rem Pitlick too?

Forwards? We don't need no steenkin' forwards.

 

[sneakyray]

I gotta say that maybe the leafs have just as much a need at centre than on defence.  After matthews, kadri and bozak they have NOBODY of note.

How many do they need? If Matthews/Kadri are pretty set as 1 and 2 for the long term and Gauthier is in the mix for a #4 spot then having a good #3 doesn't really seem like a position of urgent need.

And that's before, as Deebo says, the long term question of where Nylander plays comes up.

yeah but if theres injuries...basically their only 2 viable callups right now are gauthier and froese.  all of there other centres are juniors or overseas.

at least they have corrado and neilsen, dermott, valiev, loov...they have guys on D that can at least fill in and some guys with potential.

other than the top 4 guys they have no organizational depth at centre.

 

[Kin]

yeah but if theres injuries...basically their only 2 viable callups right now are gauthier and froese.  all of there other centres are juniors or overseas.

I don't get it. Are we talking about immediate need or organizational depth? Because they're fine for right now with Bozak around and Laich in the minors and Nylander able to slide over and so on and organizational need isn't the sort of thing you worry about spending real assets on. You can pick up that sort of depth for the minimum or on the waiver wire.

 

[Deebo]

I gotta say that maybe the leafs have just as much a need at centre than on defence.  After matthews, kadri and bozak they have NOBODY of note.

I think they view Nylander as a centre, long term.

What makes you think that?  the only times that they have used them there at the nhl level has been when they have had no other options. 

He's played C with the Marlies last year and during his post deadline call up.

I think they are easing him to his first NHL year on the wing while Bozak is still here. But Long term, I think the plan is Matthews, Nylander and Kadri down the middle. I could be wrong of course.

 

[sneakyray]

yeah but if theres injuries...basically their only 2 viable callups right now are gauthier and froese.  all of there other centres are juniors or overseas.

I don't get it. Are we talking about immediate need or organizational depth? Because they're fine for right now with Bozak around and Laich in the minors and Nylander able to slide over and so on and organizational need isn't the sort of thing you worry about spending real assets on. You can pick up that sort of depth for the minimum or on the waiver wire.

I'm saying both I guess.  That I am at least, if not more worried about their strength at centre as on defence.  So if JVR is going out I would be ok with a good to great young centre OR a good to great young dman as a centrepiece coming back.

I don't think its dman or bust in any trade.  I have to remind myself that they will probably have a top 10 pick this year too so they'll get another good/great player there too.

 

[Kin]

I'm saying both I guess.  That I am at least, if not more worried about their strength at centre as on defence.  So if JVR is going out I would be ok with a good to great young centre OR a good to great young dman as a centrepiece coming back.

Right. And I'm just saying that long term, realistically, the team's fine at C. "What if there are injuries" is a question for immediate depth. Going forward having Matthews/Kadri/Gauthier is a good enough foundation that there are much simpler ways to add a #3 or organizational depth without using the team's biggest trade chip on it.

Right now it's probably the organization's biggest strength.

 

[sneakyray]

I'm saying both I guess.  That I am at least, if not more worried about their strength at centre as on defence.  So if JVR is going out I would be ok with a good to great young centre OR a good to great young dman as a centrepiece coming back.

Right. And I'm just saying that long term, realistically, the team's fine at C. "What if there are injuries" is a question for immediate depth. Going forward having Matthews/Kadri/Gauthier is a good enough foundation that there are much simpler ways to add a #3 or organizational depth without using the team's biggest trade chip on it.

Right now it's probably the organization's biggest strength.

I'm not sure how you could argue that the organization's biggest strength is anywhere but on the wing and by a long shot.

also, if the leafs are going to be cup contenders than probably kadri should be a #3 so really you are looking for a #2C. 

so throw out my previous statement about injuries.  forget about organizational depth...

the biggest trade chip the leafs have should return what?  a top 4 defenceman or a #2 centre?

I don't know...maybe the hall larsson trade has me spooked.

I'd rather a really good #2C over a #4 dman anyday

 

[Kin]

I'm not sure how you could argue that the organization's biggest strength is anywhere but on the wing and by a long shot.

Well, it goes back to what Deebo said about where Nylander ultimately projects.

Because if Nylander is a C then what do the Leafs really have in terms of good young wingers who are top 6 types? They have Marner but other than that it's a lot of question marks and B+ kind of prospects.

 

[TBLeafer]

IMO having more natural centers on your roster than having roster spots for them all, is a very good problem to have.

Babs doesn't seem to have any problem with it, coaching Team Canada.

 

[Kin]

IMO having more natural centers on your roster than having roster spots for them all, is a very good problem to have.

Babs doesn't seem to have any problem with it, coaching Team Canada.

What in the world does that have to do with anything anyone's said?