Coronavirus

[CarltonTheBear]

So can anyone explain to me how today's announcement represent a significant step in the fight to bring infections down?

I mean I'll wait to see what they officially announce but if it's just the rumoured things of asking people to stay home more (for realsies this time!) and cutting hours at Walmarts (which seems counter-productive) then yeah it doesn't really seem like anything new.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

https://twitter.com/spaikin/status/1349041881401995265

These goddamn 4 year olds need to step it up.

 

[Bullfrog]

So can anyone explain to me how today's announcement represent a significant step in the fight to bring infections down?

I mean I'll wait to see what they officially announce but if it's just the rumoured things of asking people to stay home more (for realsies this time!) and cutting hours at Walmarts (which seems counter-productive) then yeah it doesn't really seem like anything new.

I think if they're going to keep Walmarts open for "essential goods" they need to define what an essential good is. I agree with small businesses that it's unfair. Admittedly, I'm taking advantage of the situation. I just did some mad shopping at a Dollarama because I was the only one in there. But I'll admit that a new plush mouse with included catnip wasn't an essential purchase.

Limiting shopping to essential goods by blocking off non-essential areas and limiting occupancy should be required.

 

[herman]

Do we do impeachments in Ontario?

 

[Kin]

I think if they're going to keep Walmarts open for "essential goods" they need to define what an essential good is. I agree with small businesses that it's unfair.

Is that really practical though? The idea of what is or isn't essential is pretty subjective and the relative value of big box stores, and I think you'd admit I'm the last guy who'd argue for the value of a place like Wal-Mart, is that you can keep one location open and people can, if they feel like they need to, buy a whole host of things.

Like just to give an example, my Sister moved into her new house last week. Moving for her wasn't really optional, she rented her old place and it was being sold and she was finally in a position to buy. So imagine all of the household items that we might not consider "essential" to life but would make life pretty difficult if you were moving into a new place and for whatever reason, maybe they get lost or damaged during a move, you don't have.

Or to use another, you know, we're all doing our best to cope with the mental stresses right now so there are all manner of consumer goods that might be an important part of someone's life right now but most of us would think is "inessential" in the broad scheme of things. So I'm not sure how you could just rope off whole areas of a big box store right now and deem certain items essential and others inessential.

I agree it's not strictly speaking "fair" to smaller stores who specialize in certain things but in the interest of stopping the spread of things "fairness" is a pretty high threshold here. I think the government should be doing things to ensure those people don't suffer too much economically but I don't see how you can just cut people off from buying certain goods in the name of fairness vs. leaving every business open.

 

[Bullfrog]

I understand your argument, but limiting the stores to essential goods would also reduce occupancy. People are going to these stores to buy TVs because they can. Or maybe they're not, given my example of being one of the only people in the store.

 

[Bullfrog]

On another note, why does Ontario make it so hard to find information on the restrictions? Their website is practically useless.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

https://twitter.com/KamilKaramali/status/1349062185717268483

I just don't get how this announcement can be framed this way when they're also saying we can still visit non-essential businesses for curbside pick up until 8pm everyday. How is that a "stay at home" order?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

On another note, why does Ontario make it so hard to find information on the restrictions? Their website is practically useless.

"Non-essential construction" must stop... zero details about what that means.

I say this as someone who works in a production/manufacturing setting for the construction industry. I really thought this was finally going to be the time we'd have to close for a little bit, and I would have welcomed it. Doesn't seem like that's happening.

 

[Kin]

I understand your argument, but limiting the stores to essential goods would also reduce occupancy. People are going to these stores to buy TVs because they can. Or maybe they're not, given my example of being one of the only people in the store.

Right but you're still left with defining essential and inessential which seems impossible to me. Like what if someone's thing they're doing to keep a lonely relative company is watching a TV show with them over the phone and their TV goes out? Or the lonely relative needs a new TV?

 

[L K]

I understand your argument, but limiting the stores to essential goods would also reduce occupancy. People are going to these stores to buy TVs because they can. Or maybe they're not, given my example of being one of the only people in the store.

Right but you're still left with defining essential and inessential which seems impossible to me. Like what if someone's thing they're doing to keep a lonely relative company is watching a TV show with them over the phone and their TV goes out? Or the lonely relative needs a new TV?

Well I would argue that this is a perfect time for curbside pickup/delivery rather than spending 30 minutes having a conversation with a salesperson about the merits of each TV before making a purchase.  Those direct exposure scenarios where two masked individuals are in direct communication for >15 minutes drastically increase the risk of COVID infection if one of those individuals are an asymptomatic, or subclinical carrier. 

 

[L K]

Normally, I would also be up in arms about anyone prattling in about vaccines not being safe, etc., but, I get the hesitation with this one. It?s the first mRNA vaccine that?s been approved and we don?t really know what the potential long-term effects might be. I?m still absolutely going to get it when I can (though, I have to imagine I?m near the bottom of the list), but I get why some people might be skeptics - other than those refusing for the typical antivaxxer garbage.

I understand some of the hesitation/reservations but if you are interested I'm happy to give a bigger rundown on safety and mechanisms if yourself or others want it.  (For disclosure I got my Step 1 vaccine and will have my second shot before the end of the month)

 

[Kin]

I understand your argument, but limiting the stores to essential goods would also reduce occupancy. People are going to these stores to buy TVs because they can. Or maybe they're not, given my example of being one of the only people in the store.

Right but you're still left with defining essential and inessential which seems impossible to me. Like what if someone's thing they're doing to keep a lonely relative company is watching a TV show with them over the phone and their TV goes out? Or the lonely relative needs a new TV?

Well I would argue that this is a perfect time for curbside pickup/delivery rather than spending 30 minutes having a conversation with a salesperson about the merits of each TV before making a purchase.  Those direct exposure scenarios where two masked individuals are in direct communication for >15 minutes drastically increase the risk of COVID infection if one of those individuals are an asymptomatic, or subclinical carrier.

That's entirely fair. I agree those conversations shouldn't occur and people should be shopping online where possible. I'm just trying to think of things that might not seem essential but might be needed in a hurry like a phone charging cable or something.

 

[herman]

Normally, I would also be up in arms about anyone prattling in about vaccines not being safe, etc., but, I get the hesitation with this one. It?s the first mRNA vaccine that?s been approved and we don?t really know what the potential long-term effects might be. I?m still absolutely going to get it when I can (though, I have to imagine I?m near the bottom of the list), but I get why some people might be skeptics - other than those refusing for the typical antivaxxer garbage.

I understand some of the hesitation/reservations but if you are interested I'm happy to give a bigger rundown on safety and mechanisms if yourself or others want it.  (For disclosure I got my Step 1 vaccine and will have my second shot before the end of the month)

Assuming the provider is accurately programming and delivering the mRNA, I would think the mRNA-based vaccines are significantly safer than traditionally developed ones.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Well I would argue that this is a perfect time for curbside pickup/delivery rather than spending 30 minutes having a conversation with a salesperson about the merits of each TV before making a purchase.  Those direct exposure scenarios where two masked individuals are in direct communication for >15 minutes drastically increase the risk of COVID infection if one of those individuals are an asymptomatic, or subclinical carrier. 

This feels like a good example of why an electronic store like BestBuy, or even unfortunately a small family owned one, are only open for curbside or delivery while a place like Walmart is still allowed to sell a TV in store. Generally speaking (or maybe just anecdotally) you don't really have the "salesperson" experience when you buy those things from Walmart, it's just you grab it and you go. So there's less of an exposure, particularly when combined with masks and social distancing (and capacity limits).

 

[Andy007]

https://twitter.com/MattIngramNEWS/status/1346629951751999488

What is with these people.

See, this I don't get. Travel is allowed. Anyone can go for a vacation anywhere; there are thousands of people travelling in and out of Pearson Airport every day. Visitors, Canadians, Residents, everybody. Coming/going for vacation, holidays, anything. Unless this type of travel is barred, why is this a scandal?

 

[Bullfrog]

On another note, why does Ontario make it so hard to find information on the restrictions? Their website is practically useless.

"Non-essential construction" must stop... zero details about what that means.

I say this as someone who works in a production/manufacturing setting for the construction industry. I really thought this was finally going to be the time we'd have to close for a little bit, and I would have welcomed it. Doesn't seem like that's happening.

Ya, I was going to comment on that too. I'm in the architecture field, so I'm on construction sites frequently. It's so unclear.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

On another note, why does Ontario make it so hard to find information on the restrictions? Their website is practically useless.

"Non-essential construction" must stop... zero details about what that means.

I say this as someone who works in a production/manufacturing setting for the construction industry. I really thought this was finally going to be the time we'd have to close for a little bit, and I would have welcomed it. Doesn't seem like that's happening.

Ya, I was going to comment on that too. I'm in the architecture field, so I'm on construction sites frequently. It's so unclear.

They did finally post a clarification on that, but it doesn't make it seem like the construction industry is going to be slowing down in any way:

https://twitter.com/CBCQueensPark/status/1349076831547367426

 

[OldTimeHockey]

https://twitter.com/KamilKaramali/status/1349062185717268483

I just don't get how this announcement can be framed this way when they're also saying we can still visit non-essential businesses for curbside pick up until 8pm everyday. How is that a "stay at home" order?

Food is an essential?

 

[OldTimeHockey]

On another note, why does Ontario make it so hard to find information on the restrictions? Their website is practically useless.

"Non-essential construction" must stop... zero details about what that means.

I say this as someone who works in a production/manufacturing setting for the construction industry. I really thought this was finally going to be the time we'd have to close for a little bit, and I would have welcomed it. Doesn't seem like that's happening.

I agree. We work in the explosives industry and supply to both the construction and mining industry. I'm in the office 90% of the time. Why is that essential? But our employers feel that because we're tied in with construction, we are essential....so guess what, we're in the office. They've been so vague that most companies in the industry can explain that we're all essential office workers....ha!