Coronavirus

[Kin]

Don't think this can be put on the feet of the Feds when other provinces are doing significantly better than Ontario is.

 

[bustaheims]

Don't think this can be put on the feet of the Feds when other provinces are doing significantly better than Ontario is.

Yeah. There were definitely some vaccine procurement issues in the early stages of the rollout, but now the brunt of the blame lies on Doug Fraud and his cronies.

 

[Bender]

"We're going to take actions ourselves and we will have the best [paid sick day] program anywhere in North America, bar none."

-Doug Ford, last week

Yeah but Trudeau bad? Kathleen Wynne? Obama?...no you aren't buying it?

Trudeau's not completely blameless, though he has mostly righted the ship from his end.

Doug Fraud, on the other hand, just keeps digging in deeper.

Trudeau is a bigger f up then Ford. We're in this mess because the feds didn't act fast enough on everything. They reacted instead of being pro active.

There's plenty of blame to go around. They didn't do enough to stem non-essential international travel and slow off the block for quarantine hotels, but ultimately much of this rests on provincial jurisdictions. The provinces decide on what is essential, the provinces decide what to keep open and closed and when, the provinces decide how many cases of covid are acceptable, the provinces are responsible for vaccine distribution to their various PHUs, the provinces are responsible for testing and health is a provincial jurisdiction, which includes the decision to shoot down, yet again, paid sick leave during a once in a century pandemic.

My girlfriend is running a quarantine hotel and without CERB they'd have been out of business. The feds have done a lot to keep people's heads above water and as we've seen have a pretty robust vaccine portfolio and good vaccination rates for a country that didn't develop a vaccine. For Trudeau to be a similar fuck up as Ford none of the above could be true because Ford went from being in a good position in February to being an outright disaster in April through his own decision making where the lead of the science table almost resigned and are now calling out the province for not following their recommendations.

 

[Kin]

Don't think this can be put on the feet of the Feds when other provinces are doing significantly better than Ontario is.

Yeah. There were definitely some vaccine procurement issues in the early stages of the rollout, but now the brunt of the blame lies on Doug Fraud and his cronies.

I appreciate that we're mainly in agreement here and I certainly have my share of issues with things that the Federal government has done during the last year but I feel like vaccine procurement issues were always going to be a reality. Canada is a relatively small country that was trying to buy vaccines at the same time as the rest of the world. Trudeau's strategy of trying to get a high number of vaccines a little later rather than a lower amount ASAP may have been faulty but realistically there wasn't a way for Canada to just go to the front of the line and get as much as we needed before everyone else.

 

[KadriFan]

We?re in this mess because of all the selfish people out there who refuse to obey the rules and STAY HOME!!!  Government can?t do anything if the people won?t listen.  It amazes me how people need to be told and even forced to do the obvious.  Idiots.....

 

[bustaheims]

I appreciate that we're mainly in agreement here and I certainly have my share of issues with things that the Federal government has done during the last year but I feel like vaccine procurement issues were always going to be a reality. Canada is a relatively small country that was trying to buy vaccines at the same time as the rest of the world. Trudeau's strategy of trying to get a high number of vaccines a little later rather than a lower amount ASAP may have been faulty but realistically there wasn't a way for Canada to just go to the front of the line and get as much as we needed before everyone else.

Yeah, I agree. Without our own means of production for vaccines, there were always going to be procurement issues. His misstep - if you want to go there - was not trying to rebuild/leverage the production infrastructure we had/have in the early days of the pandemic. I'm willing to give him a pass there, as there was a ton of confusion and misinformation in the first few month of this thing, and his attention was rightly on helping people in the present instead of focusing on what might be needed to augment things in the future.

That being said, the vaccine production infrastructure issues long pre-date Trudeau, and 18 months ago, it wouldn't have even made the list of potential priorities.

 

[Bender]

I appreciate that we're mainly in agreement here and I certainly have my share of issues with things that the Federal government has done during the last year but I feel like vaccine procurement issues were always going to be a reality. Canada is a relatively small country that was trying to buy vaccines at the same time as the rest of the world. Trudeau's strategy of trying to get a high number of vaccines a little later rather than a lower amount ASAP may have been faulty but realistically there wasn't a way for Canada to just go to the front of the line and get as much as we needed before everyone else.

Yeah, I agree. Without our own means of production for vaccines, there were always going to be procurement issues. His misstep - if you want to go there - was not trying to rebuild/leverage the production infrastructure we had/have in the early days of the pandemic. I'm willing to give him a pass there, as there was a ton of confusion and misinformation in the first few month of this thing, and his attention was rightly on helping people in the present instead of focusing on what might be needed to augment things in the future.

That being said, the vaccine production infrastructure issues long pre-date Trudeau, and 18 months ago, it wouldn't have even made the list of potential priorities.

Id have to read up about it but at the time it was hard to know which vaccines on which platform would work so would it have made sense to invest in manufacturing if it wouldn't be online by the time the vaccines were finalized? Seems like something we'd need more planning for than an attempt at a moonshot.

 

[Bender]

We?re in this mess because of all the selfish people out there who refuse to obey the rules and STAY HOME!!!  Government can?t do anything if the people won?t listen.  It amazes me how people need to be told and even forced to do the obvious.  Idiots.....

Except where we are is 100% linked to early relaxation of policies in February when Steini Brown literally said doing that would be a disaster.

Honestly, I don't blame the public for bad governmental decisions.

 

[L K]

I appreciate that we're mainly in agreement here and I certainly have my share of issues with things that the Federal government has done during the last year but I feel like vaccine procurement issues were always going to be a reality. Canada is a relatively small country that was trying to buy vaccines at the same time as the rest of the world. Trudeau's strategy of trying to get a high number of vaccines a little later rather than a lower amount ASAP may have been faulty but realistically there wasn't a way for Canada to just go to the front of the line and get as much as we needed before everyone else.

Yeah, I agree. Without our own means of production for vaccines, there were always going to be procurement issues. His misstep - if you want to go there - was not trying to rebuild/leverage the production infrastructure we had/have in the early days of the pandemic. I'm willing to give him a pass there, as there was a ton of confusion and misinformation in the first few month of this thing, and his attention was rightly on helping people in the present instead of focusing on what might be needed to augment things in the future.

That being said, the vaccine production infrastructure issues long pre-date Trudeau, and 18 months ago, it wouldn't have even made the list of potential priorities.

Yeah the vaccine production infrastructure isn't really a great anti-Trudeau argument.  It's an issue of how Canada has directed its manufacturing portfolios for decades.

 

[herman]

We?re in this mess because of all the selfish people out there who refuse to obey the rules and STAY HOME!!!  Government can?t do anything if the people won?t listen.  It amazes me how people need to be told and even forced to do the obvious.  Idiots.....

Except where we are is 100% linked to early relaxation of policies in February when Steini Brown literally said doing that would be a disaster.

Honestly, I don't blame the public for bad governmental decisions.

The trick to good public policy writing is to motivate people to do the right thing based on the evidence available, build in mitigations for those that cannot 100% adhere (essential workers, schools) and create appropriate disincentives for those that default to refusal; followed by a solid change management and messaging plan to educate and groups of people can be steered. Groups of people are generally selfish idiots, but that hasn't really stopped automobile manufacturers, civil infrastructure, and traffic laws from doing a pretty good job working together to make sure people can get around without dying on the regular. Selfishness is predictable, and therefore manageable.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

We're 13+ months into this thing and Ontario still does not have a universal mask mandate in all workplaces:

Workplaces
You do not need to wear a face covering when you are working in an area that allows you to maintain a distance of at least 2 metres from anyone else while you are indoors.

 

[Bender]

We're 13+ months into this thing and Ontario still does not have a universal mask mandate in all workplaces:

Workplaces
You do not need to wear a face covering when you are working in an area that allows you to maintain a distance of at least 2 metres from anyone else while you are indoors.

For the government to not follow the updated guidance, especially now that we know covid is an airborne pathogen, is just negligence.

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/kashprime/status/1387159403493797896

 

[Kin]

We?re in this mess because of all the selfish people out there who refuse to obey the rules and STAY HOME!!!  Government can?t do anything if the people won?t listen.  It amazes me how people need to be told and even forced to do the obvious.  Idiots.....

First off, I think that's a little unfair given what we know about where the outbreaks are coming from. The community spread isn't coming from jerks at Trinity-Bellwoods, it's mainly coming from people going to work and then coming home to their families. And those people aren't being selfish jerks, they're trying to earn money and keep their jobs. And government policy, specifically paid sick days, could help there.

But moreover, and call me old-fashioned if you have to, but I always thought that one of the points of government was that if there really are rules in place and people aren't following them, it's government's responsibility to enforce those rules.

But as people have pointed out the issue is that we don't really have a lot of "rules" but rather pretty vague guidelines and suggestions.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

https://twitter.com/tylerwatt90/status/1387363984349745153
https://twitter.com/DavidHains/status/1387420835376508929

 

[OldTimeHockey]

We?re in this mess because of all the selfish people out there who refuse to obey the rules and STAY HOME!!!  Government can?t do anything if the people won?t listen.  It amazes me how people need to be told and even forced to do the obvious.  Idiots.....

First off, I think that's a little unfair given what we know about where the outbreaks are coming from. The community spread isn't coming from jerks at Trinity-Bellwoods, it's mainly coming from people going to work and then coming home to their families. And those people aren't being selfish jerks, they're trying to earn money and keep their jobs. And government policy, specifically paid sick days, could help there.

But moreover, and call me old-fashioned if you have to, but I always thought that one of the points of government was that if there really are rules in place and people aren't following them, it's government's responsibility to enforce those rules.

But as people have pointed out the issue is that we don't really have a lot of "rules" but rather pretty vague guidelines and suggestions.

Ford and his government have proven to be some of the worst managers I've ever worked for. Their lack of leadership and direction leads to and fuels the idiots of the world. Misinformation and vagueness leads to interpretation. Interpretation leads to varying opinions. The government can't blame the idiots. They created the idiots.

 

[bustaheims]

We?re in this mess because of all the selfish people out there who refuse to obey the rules and STAY HOME!!!  Government can?t do anything if the people won?t listen.  It amazes me how people need to be told and even forced to do the obvious.  Idiots.....

First off, I think that's a little unfair given what we know about where the outbreaks are coming from. The community spread isn't coming from jerks at Trinity-Bellwoods, it's mainly coming from people going to work and then coming home to their families. And those people aren't being selfish jerks, they're trying to earn money and keep their jobs. And government policy, specifically paid sick days, could help there.

But moreover, and call me old-fashioned if you have to, but I always thought that one of the points of government was that if there really are rules in place and people aren't following them, it's government's responsibility to enforce those rules.

But as people have pointed out the issue is that we don't really have a lot of "rules" but rather pretty vague guidelines and suggestions.

Ford and his government have proven to be some of the worst managers I've ever worked for. Their lack of leadership and direction leads to and fuels the idiots of the world. Misinformation and vagueness leads to interpretation. Interpretation leads to varying opinions. The government can't blame the idiots. They created the idiots.

They also are the idiots. They're inmates running the asylum.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

https://twitter.com/CBCLorenda/status/1387814386610364418

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

https://twitter.com/KamilKaramali/status/1388301011790479361

Cool thread, leading to...

https://twitter.com/KamilKaramali/status/1388306210164719623

 

[Arn]

Tonight I took part in my first organised sporting team practice since I played a game last august. Pretty much not really left the house due to various lockdowns since September.

The difference to the soul and mind of that little slice of ?normal? was insane.