General Leafs Talk v2.0

[CarltonTheBear]

What on earth did Smith do to be taken out of the lineup, especially in the face of TWO enforcers on the 4th line?  He only contributed a couple of the few even strength goals the Leafs have got lately.

To be honest, I'm not sure where I would have Smith in my line-up either. I prefer Holland over him so that takes up the top-3 centres. Maybe he could move to wing but I don't know how well he'd make that transition. But yeah, it is odd to have a guy with 5 points in his last 4 games in the pressbox considering our problems scoring.

I would imagine him or Smithson could at least play as passable a LW/RW as Orr/McLaren and still chip in more at both ends of the ice (moreso Smith than Smithson, but at least both could take a draw).

I try and stay somewhat in the realm of possibility when making my line-ups so Orr will usually be included in them. He ain't going anywhere. My bigger problem at this point is McClement on the 3rd line to be honest. The team just won't get any offence from that trio when he's on there. We need to call up Leivo or Abbott and bump him back down to the 4th line:

JVR-Bozak-Kessel
Leivo/Raymond-Kadri-Clarkson
Raymond/Leivo-Holland-Kulemin
Smithson-McClement-Orr

Three lines that can score, obligatory 4th line that won't see more than 5 minutes at even-strength.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

What on earth did Smith do to be taken out of the lineup, especially in the face of TWO enforcers on the 4th line?  He only contributed a couple of the few even strength goals the Leafs have got lately.

To be honest, I'm not sure where I would have Smith in my line-up either. I prefer Holland over him so that takes up the top-3 centres. Maybe he could move to wing but I don't know how well he'd make that transition. But yeah, it is odd to have a guy with 5 points in his last 4 games in the pressbox considering our problems scoring.

I would imagine him or Smithson could at least play as passable a LW/RW as Orr/McLaren and still chip in more at both ends of the ice (moreso Smith than Smithson, but at least both could take a draw).

I try and stay somewhat in the realm of possibility when making my line-ups so Orr will usually be included in them. He ain't going anywhere. My bigger problem at this point is McClement on the 3rd line to be honest. The team just won't get any offence from that trio when he's on there. We need to call up Leivo or Abbott and bump him back down to the 4th line:

JVR-Bozak-Kessel
Leivo/Raymond-Kadri-Clarkson
Raymond/Leivo-Holland-Kulemin
Smithson-McClement-Orr

Three lines that can score, obligatory 4th line that won't see more than 5 minutes at even-strength.

That's certainly better.

 

[Jay]

Still can't help but shudder when I look at the Centres in a Leafs line up.

 

[moon111]

Still can't help but shudder when I look at the Centres in a Leafs line up.

Then try looking at the blueline.

 

[drummond]

D needs overhaul.
I like the whole story of Paul Ranger but I believe the experment is over. Fraser is also a liability. Rielly and Liles should be given extended look. The Leafs do not want to release Rielly for JWC but they will not play him either? Play the kid. Liles was caught in numbers game, but he is not a bad player, very articulated, could also help in dressing room. He deserves to be given a shot. One last point I am hearing that highly touted Granberg - who was far from impressive in a camp - has been adjusting nicely in the AHL and is currently playing very well. I would give him 3 games. You never know. It can not get any worse.

 

[Stickytape]

D needs overhaul.
I like the whole story of Paul Ranger but I believe the experment is over. Fraser is also a liability. Rielly and Liles should be given extended look. The Leafs do not want to release Rielly for JWC but they will not play him either? Play the kid. Liles was caught in numbers game, but he is not a bad player, very articulated, could also help in dressing room. He deserves to be given a shot. One last point I am hearing that highly touted Granberg - who was far from impressive in a camp - has been adjusting nicely in the AHL and is currently playing very well. I would give him 3 games. You never know. It can not get any worse.

I think I've been super generous towards Ranger so far this season.  I haven't really peeped about him, and I've stood up for him on the whole premise that the only way to cure "hasn't played in the NHL for a while" syndrome is to play in the NHL, even if you stink the place up.

But he is not getting better.  If anything, he's getting worse.  He looks lost out there, gets frustrated, and tries to compensate by hooking and holding.  He takes a couple dumb penalties per game, and that wasn't so bad while the PK was top notch, sure, but the PK is faltering a little right now, and we just can't deal with it.

I'm done with Ranger.  If he somehow still needs more time to develop, it can't be with the Leafs right now.  I vastly prefer Rielly in basically every respect.

As for Fraser, I still sort of like his game... when he's feeling 100%, which he clearly is not right now.  Dude is almost constantly a couple steps behind where he should be, and he simply can't skate the puck out of his own end.  I mean, it's literally not an option for him, because it never happens: he can only pass off, and that has led to a lot of needless turnovers and/or battles for the puck in the neutral zone.  I'd look at him again when he's fully recovered, but like with Ranger, I don't want that recovery to take place on the ice during games.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

D needs overhaul.
I like the whole story of Paul Ranger but I believe the experment is over. Fraser is also a liability. Rielly and Liles should be given extended look. The Leafs do not want to release Rielly for JWC but they will not play him either? Play the kid. Liles was caught in numbers game, but he is not a bad player, very articulated, could also help in dressing room. He deserves to be given a shot. One last point I am hearing that highly touted Granberg - who was far from impressive in a camp - has been adjusting nicely in the AHL and is currently playing very well. I would give him 3 games. You never know. It can not get any worse.

I think I've been super generous towards Ranger so far this season.  I haven't really peeped about him, and I've stood up for him on the whole premise that the only way to cure "hasn't played in the NHL for a while" syndrome is to play in the NHL, even if you stink the place up.

But he is not getting better.  If anything, he's getting worse.  He looks lost out there, gets frustrated, and tries to compensate by hooking and holding.  He takes a couple dumb penalties per game, and that wasn't so bad while the PK was top notch, sure, but the PK is faltering a little right now, and we just can't deal with it.

I'm done with Ranger.  If he somehow still needs more time to develop, it can't be with the Leafs right now.  I vastly prefer Rielly in basically every respect.

As for Fraser, I still sort of like his game... when he's feeling 100%, which he clearly is not right now.  Dude is almost constantly a couple steps behind where he should be, and he simply can't skate the puck out of his own end.  I mean, it's literally not an option for him, because it never happens: he can only pass off, and that has led to a lot of needless turnovers and/or battles for the puck in the neutral zone.  I'd look at him again when he's fully recovered, but like with Ranger, I don't want that recovery to take place on the ice during games.

This season in about 77 less even strength minutes Rielly has been on for 6 more goals against and 2 less goals for than Ranger.  It's sort of fashionable to get on Ranger, and he's had some glaringly bad turnovers at times, but I think the impact he's had on the team is overstated.  Even Franson has been on for more against.

Now maybe that's trending in the wrong direction for Ranger, I can't tell, but I don't think he's been as bad as it's appeared at times.

 

[ZBBM]

Yes, Ranger actually was playing a good game last nite except for one prior penalty IIRC ... but then he goated out.

 

[bustaheims]

Now maybe that's trending in the wrong direction for Ranger, I can't tell, but I don't think he's been as bad as it's appeared at times.

He hasn't been the worst defenceman, though, he really hasn't been good either, but, the bigger issue is that he's tied with Phaneuf for the team lead in minor penalties taken with 12, though he's played more than 160 less minutes. He's putting the team down a man way too often without contributing enough positives to balance it out.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Now maybe that's trending in the wrong direction for Ranger, I can't tell, but I don't think he's been as bad as it's appeared at times.

He hasn't been the worst defenceman, though, he really hasn't been good either, but, the bigger issue is that he's tied with Phaneuf for the team lead in minor penalties taken with 12, though he's played more than 160 less minutes. He's putting the team down a man way too often without contributing enough positives to balance it out.

Yeah, to me that's the concern.

 

[Frank E]

Now maybe that's trending in the wrong direction for Ranger, I can't tell, but I don't think he's been as bad as it's appeared at times.

He hasn't been the worst defenceman, though, he really hasn't been good either, but, the bigger issue is that he's tied with Phaneuf for the team lead in minor penalties taken with 12, though he's played more than 160 less minutes. He's putting the team down a man way too often without contributing enough positives to balance it out.

Yeah, to me that's the concern.

I've been rooting for him too.  I do see the tools there, he's got speed and he's physical...it's like the same thing I say about Gardiner; his decision making is bananas sometimes.

 

[Britishbulldog]

Now maybe that's trending in the wrong direction for Ranger, I can't tell, but I don't think he's been as bad as it's appeared at times.

He hasn't been the worst defenceman, though, he really hasn't been good either, but, the bigger issue is that he's tied with Phaneuf for the team lead in minor penalties taken with 12, though he's played more than 160 less minutes. He's putting the team down a man way too often without contributing enough positives to balance it out.

Yeah, to me that's the concern.

Me too.  I am one of those hot/cold people except that I don't switch sides easily once my mind is made up.  I was really expecting Ranger to work out and play 2nd pairing.  I was a great story line of him leaving hockey and then coming back and being an NHL regular.  I thought the $1 MIL was a great discount.  I now see him as a 7th dman not worth $1 MIL.

He has usually made bad passes and has taken a lot of minor penalties for what ever reason.  Frank E, I thought that Ranger has been noticeably slow.  I wish Ranger would get sent back down to the Marlies and let him play there.

I know that Fraser isn't Lindstrom but he has a role to play defensive, block shots, win battles along the boards, clear the front of the net and fight when needed.  He is very good at that.  As a 6th defenseman on the depth chart Fraser obviously has short comings but I think it is silly to not expect that.

 

[bustaheims]

I've been rooting for him too.  I do see the tools there, he's got speed and he's physical...it's like the same thing I say about Gardiner; his decision making is bananas sometimes.

Honestly, I don't think he really does have the speed anymore. At least, I certainly haven't seen it. I'd say his skating is pretty average, at best. In fact, my guess is his lack of speed is part of the reason he's taking so many penalties. He seems to be a step behind a lot of the time.

 

[Frank E]

I've been rooting for him too.  I do see the tools there, he's got speed and he's physical...it's like the same thing I say about Gardiner; his decision making is bananas sometimes.

Honestly, I don't think he really does have the speed anymore. At least, I certainly haven't seen it. I'd say his skating is pretty average, at best. In fact, my guess is his lack of speed is part of the reason he's taking so many penalties. He seems to be a step behind a lot of the time.

Well then, obviously you're wrong and I'm right.

I think it's his positioning that's off, and that's what gets him into trouble.  I put that in the bag of the "decision making" issues I think he displays.

 

[moon111]

The $3 million + d-man, Carl Gunnarsson doesn't mentioned.  Listed 612th overall in points.  Not really expected for offense, but one assist after 26 games is a poor showing.  Even Bill Root and Brian Curran had better production.  Is the system so bad that Gunnarsson can't generate any offense?  I like Gunnarsson, but really wish the rest of the defense was pushing him to 5th/6th on the depth chart.

 

[Chev-boyar-sky]

The $3 million + d-man, Carl Gunnarsson doesn't mentioned.  Listed 612th overall in points.  Not really expected for offense, but one assist after 26 games is a poor showing.  Even Bill Root and Brian Curran had better production.  Is the system so bad that Gunnarsson can't generate any offense?  I like Gunnarsson, but really wish the rest of the defense was pushing him to 5th/6th on the depth chart.

I think it merits some concern that his production has fallen off so dramatically from years past.

Did he see more (some) PP time in years past helping to bump his totals?

 

[bustaheims]

I think it merits some concern that his production has fallen off so dramatically from years past.

Did he see more (some) PP time in years past helping to bump his totals?

His career high in PP points is 6. Last season, he managed 15 points in 37 games without a single point on the PP. A big part of the reason his point totals have declined so drastically this season is the drop off in the team's 5 on 5 play and production. It's hard for a defenceman like Gunnarsson to put up points when the forwards he's on the ice with are scoring almost entirely off the rush.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

@mirtle

The Leafs have just 18 even strength goals in their last 14 games. That is... unbelievable.

Gross.

 

[Bender]

@mirtle

The Leafs have just 18 even strength goals in their last 14 games. That is... unbelievable.

Gross.

This may be a bigger cliff than the one the Leafs fell off of a couple years ago.

 

[bustaheims]

mirtle: Leafs have placed Jerred Smithson on waivers.

Okay . . . Bozak's hurt, so let's waive a C. While I'm all for dismantling the 4th line, Smithson was very much at the bottom of the list of current 4th liners that need to go.