Leafs @ Flyers - Jan. 18th, 8:00pm - SNO, TSN 1050

[bustaheims]

Nylander saw Gardiner starting to shade the pass, so Nylander went for the carrier, and then Gardiner also went for the carrier.

Gardiner is playing in the middle of the ice like he's supposed to in that situation. He's reading the developing play and giving himself options. If Nylander sticks to his man, Gardiner is well positioned to take away Konecny's route to the net. Once Nylander abandons Couturier to chase the puck, Gardiner is forced to treat the play like a 2-on-1 (which, admittedly, he played poorly). Nylander read the play horribly, and things compounded from there.

 

[Guilt Trip]

I think ultimately the bulk of the blame is on Nylander, he decided early he was going after the puck carrier when he should have stayed with the other guy. But maybe Gardiner could have adjusted and shaded over to the middle a bit to compensate.

Overall, just another example of poor coverage in OT.

Def on Nylander, but Gardiner needs to share the blame just like he did against Columbus.
Take Nylander out of the play and what is Gardiner's job? What's a D man's job on a 2 on 1? Anyone?? Stop the f'n pass. No need to charge at the guy. In fact since Nylander was taking the wrong guy, he could have cheated over more towards the middle and let Freddie take care of the shot.
We're still 12 points up on 4th so we're still good. Even tho we've lost, we're still getting 1 point here and there. The ship will right itself soon.
Please please please put Komarov on the 4th line and promote Brown. He's just as good, if not better defensively and he has a scoring touch. Kom is killing the Kadri line because no one needs to check him...he's not going to score anyway.

 

[Bender]

Nylander saw Gardiner starting to shade the pass, so Nylander went for the carrier, and then Gardiner also went for the carrier.

Gardiner is playing in the middle of the ice like he's supposed to in that situation. He's reading the developing play and giving himself options. If Nylander sticks to his man, Gardiner is well positioned to take away Konecny's route to the net. Once Nylander abandons Couturier to chase the puck, Gardiner is forced to treat the play like a 2-on-1 (which, admittedly, he played poorly). Nylander read the play horribly, and things compounded from there.

Gardiner should've played the man on his right once Nylander went after the puck.

 

[bustaheims]

Gardiner should've played the man on his right once Nylander went after the puck.

Then Konecny has a clear lane to the net, as Nylander never gets to him in time - and we're blasting Gardiner for abandoning the middle of the ice/misplaying a 2-on-1, etc. Nylander put him in a bad position by chasing the puck instead covering Couturier.

 

[hockeyfan1]

Gardiner should've played the man on his right once Nylander went after the puck.

Then Konecny has a clear lane to the net, as Nylander never gets to him in time - and we're blasting Gardiner for abandoning the middle of the ice/misplaying a 2-on-1, etc. Nylander put him in a bad position by chasing the puck instead covering Couturier.

They are both to blame.  Nylander for abandoning his position and Gardiner for poor execution of defensive position.  Gardiner had the opportunity of cutting off Couturier as he was coming toward the net.  Blocking the shot or staying in position instead of veering toward the puck carrier which Nylander was already doing.  Why double team Konecny?  At least if anyone had an opportunity to defend well, it was Gardiner as play got closer with Couturier on the side preparing for the eventual pass.  Gardiner decided to go the opposite direction.

Nylander surely read the play poorly in that unnecessary 2-on-1 giving the Flyers ample room to pounce.  Gardiner merely let them finish it by failing to either stay in position or attempt to cut off Couturier.  He did neither.

 

[Andy007]

Zach Hyman (17:16) led all forwards in 5-on-5 ice time, about 2 full minutes more than Matthews (15:22) who came second.

At least it wasn't Komarov?

This really is mind boggling. Hyman's only strength is his play on the PK, at ES he's, what, maybe an average fourth liner? What could the point of playing him so much possibly be? They need more players skating hard, battling in corners and ultimately NOT getting the puck to the net or to a teammate? I'm at a total loss here.

And the sad part is, this isn't an aberration; Hyman and Komarov have led the forwards, or been right at the top, in ice time multiple times this year. That should simply never happen, especially with the talent and skill level on this team.

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/jtbourne/status/954317230774222848

 

[AvroArrow]

Nylander committed, very early, to the puck carrier, but he was definitely behind him too far to be much of a factor.  Gardiner was caught between a rock and a hard place there... I think he played it right and Nylander made the wrong choice.

But, he's still a kid learning, so I'm ok with that mistake.  But I expect better next time.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

https://twitter.com/jtbourne/status/954317230774222848

But again, choosing to cover the puck carrier and actually covering the puck carrier are two completely different things. Gardiner had to play it like a 2-on-1 the entire time because Nylander just wasn't going to factor into the play. I'm fine with people arguing that maybe he made too aggressive of a move at the end there instead of staying in the middle more, but arguing that he should have "switched" to Couturier is insane. It just gives Konecny a free breakaway.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

This really is mind boggling. Hyman's only strength is his play on the PK, at ES he's, what, maybe an average fourth liner? What could the point of playing him so much possibly be? They need more players skating hard, battling in corners and ultimately NOT getting the puck to the net or to a teammate? I'm at a total loss here.

I've actually been happier with Hyman's play this season. Last year when I wanted him off the top line I'd say he should be demoted to the 4th, but now I do think he could make a good contribution to either the Kadri or Bozak line. He's a fine player and at times will work well with Matthews, but he's overplayed and right now the lines need a shake-up.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

At this rate the smart money is to be a seller at the deadline, we have some great trade chips and I?d rather see rookies in the team learning than a bunch of vets that the coach is in love with that can apparently do no wrong.

But they almost certainly won't be sellers. If anything they might actually make a Boyle-like move to shore up their 4C or bottom defence pairing I think. And that's why I don't buy the "Babcock is just playing 6-dimensional chess" theories. This team is trying to win the Stanley Cup right now. That's their goal. They aren't going to sacrifice the future to make that happen but they also aren't actively holding the teams current performance back for future benefit.

 

[Andy007]

This really is mind boggling. Hyman's only strength is his play on the PK, at ES he's, what, maybe an average fourth liner? What could the point of playing him so much possibly be? They need more players skating hard, battling in corners and ultimately NOT getting the puck to the net or to a teammate? I'm at a total loss here.

I've actually been happier with Hyman's play this season. Last year when I wanted him off the top line I'd say he should be demoted to the 4th, but now I do think he could make a good contribution to either the Kadri or Bozak line. He's a fine player and at times will work well with Matthews, but he's overplayed and right now the lines need a shake-up.

Yea, I'd certainly have no problem with him on the 3rd line or, say, with Kadri in lieu of Komorav, but he shouldn't be anywhere near 19 minutes per night. I think 3rd line-ish minutes is reasonable. And, to me at least, Komarov shouldn't be getting anything more than 4th line minutes + PK time.

 

[herman]

Sucks to lose, but I liked our game in general. Neuvirth was very excellent, and that's going to happen. He stuffed more than a few plays that easily could've turned into goals for us if the bounces went a bit different. The complexion of the game is a completely different if any one of those goes in.

Our goals against were
1) Puck stripped off of Marner at the goal side on an attempted breakout by a great Nolan Patrick effort
2) Powerplay high circle shot attempt blocked while too many forwards were crashing the net, leading to a nicely executed 2 on 1 (by skilled forwards playing PK)
3) OT breakdown after Neuvirth stops Matthews at the doorstep.

I don't know that any of these were system related, or even deployment issues (i.e. coaching issues), just straight up mis-execution.

 

[herman]

Found it!
https://twitter.com/BarstoolJordie/status/954167798640635904

 

[herman]

https://theathletic.com/216237/2018/01/19/bourne-nylander-or-gardiner-whos-to-blame-for-flyers-overtime-winner/

The breakdown of the breakdown.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Heads up play by Giroux as well to not try and instinctively keep that in himself (which would have made it a hand pass).

 

[herman]

Heads up play by Giroux as well to not try and instinctively keep that in himself (which would have made it a hand pass).

I'm guessing Gostisbehere yelled something too, as Giroux changes his momentum pretty abruptly.

I kind of wish the game could be televised with the chatter they have on the ice (I know that's pretty much impossible due to the expletives -- or expleetives as Romanuk called it -- and cross talk. We got a bit of it when Hainsey was directing Polak while the mics were hot.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

https://theathletic.com/216237/2018/01/19/bourne-nylander-or-gardiner-whos-to-blame-for-flyers-overtime-winner/

The breakdown of the breakdown.

Spoiler alert to non-subscribers he blames the whole thing on Dermott wow.

 

[Coco-puffs]

https://theathletic.com/216237/2018/01/19/bourne-nylander-or-gardiner-whos-to-blame-for-flyers-overtime-winner/

The breakdown of the breakdown.

I read that and immediately said Nylander had no chance of influencing Konecny on his backcheck like Bourne thinks he can.  Gardiner made a poor decision, but he was forced into making one on a 2v1 because Nylander played it wrong. 

 

[bustaheims]

I read that and immediately said Nylander had no chance of influencing Konecny on his backcheck like Bourne thinks he can.  Gardiner made a poor decision, but he was forced into making one on a 2v1 because Nylander played it wrong.

Agreed - especially if Gardiner goes to Couturier any earlier. Konecny isn't charging in at full speed because he doesn't have a clear path to the net and he'll need to make a play with the puck from near the faceoff dot. If his path is clear, the gap between him and Nylander would have been much larger, as he'd be charging hard at the net - and, even as it was, Konecny was still out of the range of Nylander's stick.

Gardiner challenges Konecny too early, sure, but he should never have been put into that situation in the first place.