Leafs @ Flyers - Jan. 18th, 8:00pm - SNO, TSN 1050

[herman]

https://theathletic.com/216237/2018/01/19/bourne-nylander-or-gardiner-whos-to-blame-for-flyers-overtime-winner/

The breakdown of the breakdown.

I read that and immediately said Nylander had no chance of influencing Konecny on his backcheck like Bourne thinks he can.  Gardiner made a poor decision, but he was forced into making one on a 2v1 because Nylander played it wrong.

From the overhead angle, it does look like Nylander has little to no effect on Konecny. From the ice level angles, Nylander is a presence that forces him wide into no shot territory. And it's not like Nylander changed his mind partway, he was immediately looking and tracking the puck carrier upon the whiff from Matthews.

Watch Nylander's head (and then watch Gardiner's!)

 

[bustaheims]

From the overhead angle, it does look like Nylander has little to no effect on Konecny. From the ice level angles, Nylander is a presence that forces him wide into no shot territory. And it's not like Nylander changed his mind partway, he was immediately looking and tracking the puck carrier upon the whiff from Matthews.

Disagree. Konecny starts out wide, and it's Gardiner in front of him taking away his lane to the net that keeps him there. If Nylander stays with Couturier, Konecny stays wide because he has no lane on the inside. Nylander had no influence.

 

[Coco-puffs]

https://theathletic.com/216237/2018/01/19/bourne-nylander-or-gardiner-whos-to-blame-for-flyers-overtime-winner/

The breakdown of the breakdown.

I read that and immediately said Nylander had no chance of influencing Konecny on his backcheck like Bourne thinks he can.  Gardiner made a poor decision, but he was forced into making one on a 2v1 because Nylander played it wrong.

From the overhead angle, it does look like Nylander has little to no effect on Konecny. From the ice level angles, Nylander is a presence that forces him wide into no shot territory. And it's not like Nylander changed his mind partway, he was immediately looking and tracking the puck carrier upon the whiff from Matthews.

Watch Nylander's head (and then watch Gardiner's!)

Completely disagree.  If Gardiner stays with Couturier Konecny can easily cut to the net , while protecting the puck since he's a right handed shot and Nylander is behind his left shoulder.  The only reason it look like Nylander can influence anything in that last screen shot is because Gardiner came across to play Konecny, so Konecny went a little wider and had to pass across his body.

Without a doubt Gardiner played that poorly.  But it doesn't absolve Nylander for playing it poorly before.  One bad decision leads to another.  Had Nylander stayed with Couturier Gardiner would have been 1v1 with Konecny.

 

[herman]

It sounds like the crux of the disagreement is that Nylander a) is closest to Couturier, b) would have no effect on Konecny. I don't know that those things matter in terms of Nylander's decision making, especially in light of the directive for him to take the carrier unless told otherwise. Gardiner has a clear view of both A and B transpiring, so he could have easily waved Nylander off. Even if he didn't, he was in perfect positioning to shade the pass to Couturier AND force Konecny wider than preferred by staying where he was already positioned. Electing to challenge the carrier before Nylander could get back opened up a lot of passing room.

So we can fault Nylander for picking the suboptimal track (though I think he had a shot at harrying Konecny if Gardiner didn't press). Gardiner here had the responsibility and opportunity to direct this play and flubbed it.

 

[Coco-puffs]

It sounds like the crux of the disagreement is that Nylander a) is closest to Couturier, b) would have no effect on Konecny. I don't know that those things matter in terms of Nylander's decision making, especially in light of the directive for him to take the carrier unless told otherwise. Gardiner has a clear view of both A and B transpiring, so he could have easily waved Nylander off. Even if he didn't, he was in perfect positioning to shade the pass to Couturier AND force Konecny wider than preferred by staying where he was already positioned. Electing to challenge the carrier before Nylander could get back opened up a lot of passing room.

So we can fault Nylander for picking the suboptimal track (though I think he had a shot at harrying Konecny if Gardiner didn't press). Gardiner here had the responsibility and opportunity to direct this play and flubbed it.

I still disagree that he had a shot at "hurrying" Konecny if Gardiner didn't press.  All he may have prevented is a deke attempt if Konecny went backhand since Willy was chasing on Konecny's left side.

I also think "tracking" the puck carrier makes VERY LITTLE sense in 3v3 OT unless you are already on top of your man (ie if Nylander was already ahead of Konecny, not chasing from behind).  Nylander was GUARANTEED to stick with Couturier and wasn't guaranteed to disrupt Konecny.  It was a bad decision and I don't think its defensible.

I don't disagree with your/Bourne's assessment of Gardiner:

1.  He should have directed Nylander to stay with Couturier.
2.  Once he saw that Nylander was going to track Konecny he should have played the 2on1 more traditionally- which is trying to prevent the pass without giving Konecny a perfectly clear path to the net (ie, stay mostly in the middle)

However, I've seen a NUMBER of cases recently where Leafs D are being very aggressive on the puck carrier on 2on1's and I wonder if the coaching staff wants it... in which case, part of the blame goes to them for wanting that aggression.  Instances where this happened in just the last 3 games:

1.  Hainsey on the last Ottawa goal (after Rielly made his bad pinch).  Hainsey was really aggressive on the puck carrier.
2.  Gardiner on the St. Louis OT goal.  He went right at Dunn on the 2on1 leaving Stastny pretty much alone had Dunn passed.  Dunn was actually forced to shoot just inside the top of the circle but had a wicked finish.  Had Gardiner been less aggressive, Dunn could have walked in further for an even better chance.
3.  Morgan Rielly on the Philly Shorthanded goal.  Tried to block a shot/and take away the pass in one diving move and it went horribly.  It was quite aggressive and backfired.

 

[herman]

I'm still okay with Nylander's decision there. He has a straight line to skate to cut off Konecny, who is taking the diagonal or an arc to get to the middle, and just the geometry of it means Nylander will intercept if Konecny tried to make a direct play. The directives are there to reduce decision making time. Communication is available to adjust to the situation when the directive is suboptimal.

I've noticed the aggression too. I don't think it's the wrong play necessarily as I much prefer it to sitting back and waiting for stuff to happen. I will say that most of our defense don't really execute it very well (yet?) and it's certainly not without its risks. Similar to the blueline auto pinch on the cycle, there really needs to be backside support first. Figuring out when to trigger best is clearly a work in progress.

 

[louisstamos]

Guys, if it's anyone's fault, it's Butters.