Leafs @ Sharks - Jan. 15th, 10:30pm - TSN, Fan 590

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

No matter which way it gets sliced, biggest issue or only issue, the thinking was clearly wrong. Carlyle wasnt the problem with this team. It is the players, or at least the core group of players, that should take the majority of the blame for the deficiencies of this team.

What is the basis for your "clearly wrong" statement? The lack of results in the few games since Carlyle's been gone? That's a bit premature, no?

Why can't it be both, the players and Carlyle?

He's been preaching that the problem wasn't Carlyle and that people can shove their analytic mumbo jumbo and gosh damn it he will not be wrong! 

You're right Bullfrog.

EDIT: Oh and case I was not clear enough with the smiley, I'm just giving you a hard time Red, I know your point is more nuanced than how I portrayed it.

 

[Redleaf]

No matter which way it gets sliced, biggest issue or only issue, the thinking was clearly wrong. Carlyle wasnt the problem with this team. It is the players, or at least the core group of players, that should take the majority of the blame for the deficiencies of this team.

What is the basis for your "clearly wrong" statement? The lack of results in the few games since Carlyle's been gone? That's a bit premature, no?

Why can't it be both, the players and Carlyle?

I'll admit I may be a little hasty on the early reviews of Horacheck. The analytics have been better, but the results aren't falling into line. It has only been 5 games, and a tough road trip to boot, so we'll see how they do the rest of the way.

I do still have serious doubts that this group of players can make the proper adjustments defensively and still win games moving forward. Time will tell as they say.

 

[Bullfrog]

I definitely think some patience in reviewing Horachek is required. He's started with a banged up roster on a very tough road trip. Plus, it'll take time to "unlearn" Carlyle's system.

I don't really have an opinion on Horachek or the group of players right now. Give them another 20 games and we'll see where they are then. Though even then it may be tough if there's any significant changes to the roster.

 

[Redleaf]

I definitely think some patience in reviewing Horachek is required. He's started with a banged up roster on a very tough road trip. Plus, it'll take time to "unlearn" Carlyle's system.

I don't really have an opinion on Horachek or the group of players right now. Give them another 20 games and we'll see where they are then. Though even then it may be tough if there's any significant changes to the roster.

Fair enough.

 

[Highlander]

Redleaf, read, Hitchcocks statements about the new Leafs in todays Star, says implementing a defensive system takes time, yes offense will suffer at first, but the deeper you go into the defensive structure the more offense will start to come along. We need to be a little more patient with this changeover.

 

[Britishbulldog]

Redleaf, read, Hitchcocks statements about the new Leafs in todays Star, says implementing a defensive system takes time, yes offense will suffer at first, but the deeper you go into the defensive structure the more offense will start to come along. We need to be a little more patient with this changeover.

After the last 40 years that I have watching the Leafs lose I am certainly willing to be patient for 5 more if they have the management in place to build a contender.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Per Chris Johnston, Clarkson has 1 G, 1 A in last 19 GP.

 

[Bullfrog]

Per Chris Johnston, Clarkson has 1 G, 1 A in last 19 GP.

10 games without a point.

Still on 2nd PP unit.

 

[L K]

Per Chris Johnston, Clarkson has 1 G, 1 A in last 19 GP.

10 games without a point.

Still on 2nd PP unit.

He's on an 82-game pace to improve by a whopping 8 points from his disaster last year.  Worst contract in the NHL.

 

[Kin]

Eh...at this point I'd keep him there just in the hopes that it gets him going and that his contract becomes potentially less terrible.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Per Chris Johnston, Clarkson has 1 G, 1 A in last 19 GP.

10 games without a point.

Still on 2nd PP unit.

He's on an 82-game pace to improve by a whopping 8 points from his disaster last year.  Worst contract in the NHL.

And that would be in 22 more games.  If you do it for the 60 games like he played last season, his 60 game pace is 6-7 points more than last season.

And he's actually averaging 1:00 more of PP/game this season.  He's arguably been worse this season when you take that into account.

 

[Highlander]

Lets start a buy out fund for Clarkson. I will put up the first 10 bucks

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Eh...at this point I'd keep him there just in the hopes that it gets him going and that his contract becomes potentially less terrible.

They'd be better off keeping him away from the PP and trying to justify his low point totals by saying that there's no room for him on the powerplay.

 

[Kin]

Eh...at this point I'd keep him there just in the hopes that it gets him going and that his contract becomes potentially less terrible.

They'd be better off keeping him away from the PP and trying to justify his low point totals by saying that there's no room for him on the powerplay.

Eh, teams are dumb but that dumb?

 

[Kin]

Lets start a buy out fund for Clarkson. I will put up the first 10 bucks

The reason he's not getting bought out is not because they don't have the money.

 

[Andy007]

Lets start a buy out fund for Clarkson. I will put up the first 10 bucks

The buyout is not the problem. The problem is the many years of significant cap hit that ensues after the buyout.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

Per Chris Johnston, Clarkson has 1 G, 1 A in last 19 GP.

That's a hot streak for Clarkson, isn't it?

 

[mc]

Clarky needs to sit in the press box. Completely useless on the ice. Can't buy him out, cant trade him and he sucks on the ice so sit him.

 

[freer]

Per Chris Johnston, Clarkson has 1 G, 1 A in last 19 GP.

10 games without a point.

Still on 2nd PP unit.

He's on an 82-game pace to improve by a whopping 8 points from his disaster last year.  Worst contract in the NHL.

I dont know Gomez was worse IMO.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I dont know Gomez was worse IMO.

Gomez averaged 62 points during his first 3 seasons of his contract. He was overpaid even then definitely, but at least he was a serviceable NHLer for a portion of his deal.