Leafs talking to Kiprusoff's agent

[Zee]

Apparently (per Dreger this AM) the Leafs offered a 3rd. I'm okay with that.

I'd really like to understand why Nonis would want to disrupt our youngish goalies? I get that Kipper has lots of experience and all that, but I'm a bit concerned about the issues and choice here.

I think it's a great idea.  The leafs will not be able to go far with their current goaltenders.  I think Nonis is realizing that neither Reimer or Scrivens is the goalie of the future.  Kipper is just board and done playing on awful teams.  How he looks now isn't a concern to me. 

If we can get him for a 2nd or 3rd I would do it in a heartbeat.  He would be the #1.

Even if Kiprusoff regains his form from last season and is truly a #1, for how long?  1 more year?  2?  He's not getting any younger and has started having injury issues to boot.  There's absolutely no reason for the Leafs to get him considering they didn't even consider themselves a legitimate playoff team at the start of the season.  Reimer has played well enough to be given a chance at some playoff hockey.  After all, it's the combo of Reimer/Scrivens that have put the Leafs into a playoff spot to this point.

 

[lc9]

Even if Kiprusoff regains his form from last season and is truly a #1, for how long?  1 more year?  2?  He's not getting any younger and has started having injury issues to boot.

Yes, 2 or 3 years and then see what is happening.  I feel the Leafs have a better shot at winning that way than with Reimer in net.

After all, it's the combo of Reimer/Scrivens that have put the Leafs into a playoff spot to this point.

Of all 16 teams currently in the playoffs only the Jets have given up more goals than Leafs.  Reimer and Scrivens have been fine, but they aren't filling people with heaps of confidence.

 

[Zee]

Even if Kiprusoff regains his form from last season and is truly a #1, for how long?  1 more year?  2?  He's not getting any younger and has started having injury issues to boot.

Yes, 2 or 3 years and then see what is happening.  I feel the Leafs have a better shot at winning that way than with Reimer in net.

After all, it's the combo of Reimer/Scrivens that have put the Leafs into a playoff spot to this point.

Of all 16 teams currently in the playoffs only the Jets have given up more goals than Leafs.  Reimer and Scrivens have been fine, but they aren't filling people with heaps of confidence.

That's cause the Leafs give up a lot of shots.  In team save %, the combo of Reimer/Scrivens is 8th in the league.  8th.  Given up the 3rd most shots against.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Apparently (per Dreger this AM) the Leafs offered a 3rd. I'm okay with that.

I'd really like to understand why Nonis would want to disrupt our youngish goalies? I get that Kipper has lots of experience and all that, but I'm a bit concerned about the issues and choice here.

I think it's a great idea.  The leafs will not be able to go far with their current goaltenders.  I think Nonis is realizing that neither Reimer or Scrivens is the goalie of the future.  Kipper is just board and done playing on awful teams.  How he looks now isn't a concern to me. 

If we can get him for a 2nd or 3rd I would do it in a heartbeat.  He would be the #1.

Really ? 

Absolutely.  Our goaltending isn't great.

In what way is it not?  And if it's not "great" it is at least very good.  Both goalies are in the top 20 in the league in sv%, Reimer is top 13, top 10 if you base it on at least 15 games played.  Reimer's .920 SV% is basically equal to Kiprusoff's best season (.923 SV%).

 

[Kin]

That's cause the Leafs give up a lot of shots.  In team save %, the combo of Reimer/Scrivens is 8th in the league.  8th.  Given up the 3rd most shots against.

While true, a goalie does have some influence on the number of shots he faces especially if, as lc9 says, they have bad rebound control.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Even if Kiprusoff regains his form from last season and is truly a #1, for how long?  1 more year?  2?  He's not getting any younger and has started having injury issues to boot.

Yes, 2 or 3 years and then see what is happening.  I feel the Leafs have a better shot at winning that way than with Reimer in net.

After all, it's the combo of Reimer/Scrivens that have put the Leafs into a playoff spot to this point.

Of all 16 teams currently in the playoffs only the Jets have given up more goals than Leafs.  Reimer and Scrivens have been fine, but they aren't filling people with heaps of confidence.

That's cause the Leafs give up a lot of shots.  In team save %, the combo of Reimer/Scrivens is 8th in the league.  8th.  Given up the 3rd most shots against.

Exactly, it'd be like determining the best goalie based on number of saves made.

 

[lc9]

In what way is it not?  And if it's not "great" it is at least very good.  Both goalies are in the top 20 in the league in sv%, Reimer is top 13, top 10 if you base it on at least 15 games played.  Reimer's .920 SV% is basically equal to Kiprusoff's best season (.923 SV%).

It will be interesting to see what Nonis does.  He could have easily put all speculation to bed, but he has kept the phone lines open for goaltending, there must be a reason.  Reimer doesn't seem like the type of goalie who has the potential to be a game stealer. 

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

In what way is it not?  And if it's not "great" it is at least very good.  Both goalies are in the top 20 in the league in sv%, Reimer is top 13, top 10 if you base it on at least 15 games played.  Reimer's .920 SV% is basically equal to Kiprusoff's best season (.923 SV%).

It will be interesting to see what Nonis does.  He could have easily put all speculation to bed, but he has kept the phone lines open for goaltending, there must be a reason.  Reimer doesn't seem like the type of goalie who has the potential to be a game stealer.

He doesn't have to "seem" that way, he's playing that way.  A .920 SV% is quite good, and he's had an above average even-strength SV% for quite awhile now (something like 90 games-ish).  If you're uncomfortable with him as a starter it certainly can't be due to the numbers he has put up this season.

 

[Zee]

In what way is it not?  And if it's not "great" it is at least very good.  Both goalies are in the top 20 in the league in sv%, Reimer is top 13, top 10 if you base it on at least 15 games played.  Reimer's .920 SV% is basically equal to Kiprusoff's best season (.923 SV%).

It will be interesting to see what Nonis does.  He could have easily put all speculation to bed, but he has kept the phone lines open for goaltending, there must be a reason.  Reimer doesn't seem like the type of goalie who has the potential to be a game stealer.

This.

Although I may not agree with going after someone like Kipper (or Luongo), I'm interested to see which direction Nonis goes and what reasons he gives once the deal is made (or isn't made).  It's actually fun following the deadline this season as opposed to the last 7 years.

 

[princedpw]

I'm worried about the number of posts in this thread.  I really, really hope I don't have to read about a terrible, cap-crippling trade for a goalie tomorrow.

 

[princedpw]

That's cause the Leafs give up a lot of shots.  In team save %, the combo of Reimer/Scrivens is 8th in the league.  8th.  Given up the 3rd most shots against.

While true, a goalie does have some influence on the number of shots he faces especially if, as lc9 says, they have bad rebound control.

Here is a blog post on rebound control:

http://brodeurisafraud.blogspot.com/2009/04/value-of-rebound-control.html

The number of "rebound shots" in a game is pretty small and the differences between teams are pretty small.  For example, the article states that the league average at the time (2009) was about 1.6 rebound shots per game. NJ was averaging 1.4-1.5 rebound shots per game with Brodeur and was ranked 7th in the league by that metric.  So you are talking a difference of 1-2 (quality) shots every 10 games.  Doesn't seem like much.  There's more to the article than that for those that are interested.

Bottom line: we'll probably get a better understanding of how good a guy is by looking at his save percentage as a primary metric.  If two guys save percentage are roughly the same then it might make sense to take rebound control in to account to some degree.  At the moment, I wouldn't use rebound control as a reason to go after a guy like Kipper...

 

[Leaflifer]

I suspect Nonis is looking for a backup in the event the leafs get hot in the playoffs. Reimer isn't an iron man, and may not last past two rounds of goalie crashing.

I like Scrivens, but in the case of the leafs getting deep, he's not the guy right now.

If he wanted a number one in kipper he would offer more than a third.

The only thing that makes sense to me is kipper is ready to retire, and comes here to sit on the bench (and watch some good hockey) and be ready if things get rolling and Reims goes down in the post season.

 

[Jalili]

I can see why they're doing this.

Kiprusoff would be like a contingency plan if Reimer succumbs to an injury or gets shell-shocked in their opening playoff game. He'd just be another option available.

Cuz no offense to Scrivens, but I don't want to see the team blow it's shot at winning a series because their goalie made a bush-league mistake handling the puck or something.

 

[Kin]

The number of "rebound shots" in a game is pretty small and the differences between teams are pretty small.  For example, the article states that the league average at the time (2009) was about 1.6 rebound shots per game. NJ was averaging 1.4-1.5 rebound shots per game with Brodeur and was ranked 7th in the league by that metric.  So you are talking a difference of 1-2 (quality) shots every 10 games.  Doesn't seem like much.  There's more to the article than that for those that are interested.

While that reads true if you dig around the post you linked you'll find that a "rebound shot" by the definition used is a shot that occurs within two seconds of a save being made. While that's obviously an important measurement(as a lot of goals are scored that way) that clearly doesn't account for all of the shots a goalie might face as a result of not controlling a rebound.

Again, while I agree that SV% as a rule is a better individual stat all I said was that a goalie has some influence on the number of shots he'll face and that rebound control was a factor in that.

 

[Boston Leaf]

I could be way off but does everyone think there is a huge difference in talent/play of Reimer and Scrivens? I see them almost as the same type of goalie with similar issues?

 

[puckhog78]

I could be way off but does everyone think there is a huge difference in talent/play of Reimer and Scrivens? I see them almost as the same type of goalie with similar issues?

yeah I agree for the most part. As of right now, they're pretty equal. Reimer is a year and a half younger and plays the puck much better (even though Reimer still needs a lot of work on the subject). I prefer Reimer but I can see a case being made for either goalie going forward.

 

[Leaflifer]

I could be way off but does everyone think there is a huge difference in talent/play of Reimer and Scrivens? I see them almost as the same type of goalie with similar issues?

yeah I agree for the most part. As of right now, they're pretty equal. Reimer is a year and a half younger and plays the puck much better (even though Reimer still needs a lot of work on the subject). I prefer Reimer but I can see a case being made for either goalie going forward.

Still, I think the leafs go with Reimer in the post season, and Kiprusoff as a backup.

In a way, that scenario shows a lot of faith in Reimer and a realistic position with Scrivens.

With leafs being hot lately and post season coming fast, they have to look at the possibility of winning a round or two.

They don't want to be caught with their pants down with an injured/tired Reimer staring at the quarter finals.

Should Scrivens be the guy at that point, and it's unlikely the leafs get much further, the goaltending will be the first thing dissected and blamed by the media, should the leafs get beat.

It's not a far fetched idea to think the leafs can't win a round or two. They're looking pretty damn good right now.

 

[slapshot]

NHL level contract for MacIntyre today probably means Kipper deal is off?

 

[bustaheims]

RenLavoieRDS: Mikka Kiprusoff is open to a trade to Toronto. Still wants adjustment on his contract for next season. #transactions2013

Lavoie's track record is iffy and I'm guessing he's not exactly right here, especially considering the fact that it's not possibly to adjust Kiprusoff's contract for next season.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

RenLavoieRDS: Mikka Kiprusoff is open to a trade to Toronto. Still wants adjustment on his contract for next season. #transactions2013

Lavoie's track record is iffy and I'm guessing he's not exactly right here, especially considering the fact that it's not possibly to adjust Kiprusoff's contract for next season.

His original french tweets just suggests that Kipper wants an extension I think. He might have messed up translating himself.