Maple Leafs @ Coyotes - Feb. 16th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590

[Highlander]

Why wouldn't Sparks get the start in this one? Saving him for red-hot St. Louis?

Haven't heard who the confirmed starter is but I don't see Sparks to be playing either game. No back to backs here and we need wins. Have to keep home ice for the first round.

If the Leafs feel that they can't beat Arizona with their backup then I wouldn't invest too much in thinking that they can get out of the 1st round home ice or not.  To me, this should be a simple choice to keep Andersen's workload reasonable.

The leafs already lost 4-1 this season to the coyotes with Andersen in net. So should they just pack up and concede the rest of the season?

Sounds like an argument for starting Sparks tonight since they obviously own Andersen.

In retrospect Sparks should have played in this POS

 

[Bates]

All i can say is I am so happy I bailed on going to this game. To pay for shit like that would not have been fun. Time to go for a great steak dinner and spend the money that way.

I never go to Coyotes games against good teams. The cost of tickets is at least double and the Coyotes suck the Life out of these games. It's the style they need to play to have a chance.

 

[azzurri63]

For all the sky-is-falling pushback, does anybody share with me just the teeniest sense of disappointment that, good as the Leafs are, it seemed at the start of the season like they should be closer to the kind of dominance TBL is showing?  Yes, I understand TBL is having a fantastic season.  But the fact is, there is them, and then there are about 6 teams right at the Leafs point level.  Heck, the lowly Islanders are ahead of us in the standings.  (Their fans must be having a hell of a lot of fun this morning at our expense.)  Anybody laughing at Lou now?

So yeah, I'll just come out and say it: I am a little disappointed.  It's not just that they crapped the bed last night; it happens.  It's that there are too many nights where they don't bring their "A" game consistently.  And given the forward talent, I don't think we should accept that.

The narrative going in to the season was that the Leafs would have 3 lines that would be almost impossible to contain.  That they would be dominant.  I never thought they would be quite as good as TBL.  But they don't give me the sense of being a dominant team.

I'm not naive, this is the best Leafs team in 50 years and I've never enjoyed watching them more than this year.  I'm just being honest, was hoping for a little bit more.

Exactly how I feel McFate. Like Ive posted before with the talent we have I think we are underachieving in some respect.
Losses don't bother me as much as the the no show games like last night which happen far too often.
I personally feel there is no accountability anymore.
I don't care who you are and if you're being paid $500,000 or 11 million if you're not putting in a solid effort players should be benched.
Teams in the league with far less talent than this Leafs team that are above us in the standings or not far off.
Hard work beats skill and too often the hard work is not there.

 

[lc9]

For all the sky-is-falling pushback, does anybody share with me just the teeniest sense of disappointment that, good as the Leafs are, it seemed at the start of the season like they should be closer to the kind of dominance TBL is showing?  Yes, I understand TBL is having a fantastic season.  But the fact is, there is them, and then there are about 6 teams right at the Leafs point level.  Heck, the lowly Islanders are ahead of us in the standings.  (Their fans must be having a hell of a lot of fun this morning at our expense.)  Anybody laughing at Lou now?

So yeah, I'll just come out and say it: I am a little disappointed.  It's not just that they crapped the bed last night; it happens.  It's that there are too many nights where they don't bring their "A" game consistently.  And given the forward talent, I don't think we should accept that.

The narrative going in to the season was that the Leafs would have 3 lines that would be almost impossible to contain.  That they would be dominant.  I never thought they would be quite as good as TBL.  But they don't give me the sense of being a dominant team.

I'm not naive, this is the best Leafs team in 50 years and I've never enjoyed watching them more than this year.  I'm just being honest, was hoping for a little bit more.

That?s the thing no one wants to say.  Yes, leafs are having their best season in foreve, but they are still playing below expectations. And that?s due to consistent effort.  Some nights they just don?t compete, there have been worse leaf teams that were more fun to watch because they consistently competed. 

Staring down another first round matchup with the bruins adds to the angst, because the bruins own real estate in the leafs head. 

 

[Joe S.]

Below your expectations maybe.

 

[Kin]

The narrative going in to the season was that the Leafs would have 3 lines that would be almost impossible to contain.  That they would be dominant.  I never thought they would be quite as good as TBL.  But they don't give me the sense of being a dominant team.

The narrative going into the season, in just about every single preview I read, was that the Leafs would have a terrific forward group but a less than stellar defense that would hold them back from reaching the upper echelon of contenders.

 

[Kin]

For instance, this is from ESPN's season preview:

Best-case scenario: Andersen is the best goalie in the playoffs, and the Leafs' collection of star forwards is enough to overcome the lack of a star defenseman in their championship recipe.

Worst-case scenario: Often lost amid the John Tavares hoopla is this truth: The Maple Leafs are still shoddy on defense. OK, no matter. Toronto still finds a way into the playoffs. But they don't win the Stanley Cup -- in fact, they barely look like a legitimate Stanley Cup contender. The worst-case scenario is the anxiety that would inevitably mount in Toronto. Maybe our time will never come.

 

[Bates]

For all the sky-is-falling pushback, does anybody share with me just the teeniest sense of disappointment that, good as the Leafs are, it seemed at the start of the season like they should be closer to the kind of dominance TBL is showing?  Yes, I understand TBL is having a fantastic season.  But the fact is, there is them, and then there are about 6 teams right at the Leafs point level.  Heck, the lowly Islanders are ahead of us in the standings.  (Their fans must be having a hell of a lot of fun this morning at our expense.)  Anybody laughing at Lou now?

So yeah, I'll just come out and say it: I am a little disappointed.  It's not just that they crapped the bed last night; it happens.  It's that there are too many nights where they don't bring their "A" game consistently.  And given the forward talent, I don't think we should accept that.

The narrative going in to the season was that the Leafs would have 3 lines that would be almost impossible to contain.  That they would be dominant.  I never thought they would be quite as good as TBL.  But they don't give me the sense of being a dominant team.

I'm not naive, this is the best Leafs team in 50 years and I've never enjoyed watching them more than this year.  I'm just being honest, was hoping for a little bit more.

Matthews kinda says what I've thought for awhile, Babcock gets out-coached more often than I like.

https://youtu.be/jnhLrV06BP8

 

[Zee]

Boston currently has home ice, this is not good

Did the season end last night? I wasn?t aware.

Just making an observation, don't lump me together with sky is falling lc9. 

 

[Guilt Trip]

Boston currently has home ice, this is not good

Did the season end last night? I wasn?t aware.

Just making an observation, don't lump me together with sky is falling lc9. 

No one else is worthy of that lump

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Heck, the lowly Islanders are ahead of us in the standings.  (Their fans must be having a hell of a lot of fun this morning at our expense.)  Anybody laughing at Lou now?

Oh good, someone brought up the Isles again. Seeing as how they're success is almost entirely dependent on two journeymen goalies putting up Vezina-like numbers, yeah I'm still laughing at Lou because I know how funny next season is going to be.

 

[ZBBM]

The narrative going in to the season was that the Leafs would have 3 lines that would be almost impossible to contain.  That they would be dominant.  I never thought they would be quite as good as TBL.  But they don't give me the sense of being a dominant team.

The narrative going into the season, in just about every single preview I read, was that the Leafs would have a terrific forward group but a less than stellar defense that would hold them back from reaching the upper echelon of contenders.

Sloppy use of pronouns on my part. "They would be dominant" refers to the forwards not the whole team, and then I slide into "they" referring to whole team in the next 2 sentences, with the idea being the forwards would lift the team to a more dominant in spite of the defense shortcomings.  What you say above is pretty close to what I meant by narratives going into the season. 

I expected them to be closer to (but not at) the ESPN  b/c scenario, and instead they are closer to (but not at) the w/c.

Anyway, you didn't answer the question.  Don't have to, of course, but I'd be interested in whether you are satisfied with how the season is gone.

 

[ZBBM]

Heck, the lowly Islanders are ahead of us in the standings.  (Their fans must be having a hell of a lot of fun this morning at our expense.)  Anybody laughing at Lou now?

Oh good, someone brought up the Isles again. Seeing as how they're success is almost entirely dependent on two journeymen goalies putting up Vezina-like numbers, yeah I'm still laughing at Lou because I know how funny next season is going to be.

Nothing quite like people waving away the only statistic that counts.

 

[Kin]

Anyway, you didn't answer the question.  Don't have to, of course, but I'd be interested in whether you are satisfied with how the season is gone.

I'm probably the wrong person to ask as I've never really been one for the wailing and rending of garments when the team isn't going well but I don't think that if you'd asked me before the season I'd have thought the Leafs would be massively ahead of where they are now points-wise, especially if you told me Matthews would get hurt and Nylander would miss a quarter of the year.

Like the dominant narrative heading into the season, I thought they'd be a good team and they have been.

 

[Zee]

For all the sky-is-falling pushback, does anybody share with me just the teeniest sense of disappointment that, good as the Leafs are, it seemed at the start of the season like they should be closer to the kind of dominance TBL is showing?  Yes, I understand TBL is having a fantastic season.  But the fact is, there is them, and then there are about 6 teams right at the Leafs point level.  Heck, the lowly Islanders are ahead of us in the standings.  (Their fans must be having a hell of a lot of fun this morning at our expense.)  Anybody laughing at Lou now?

So yeah, I'll just come out and say it: I am a little disappointed.  It's not just that they crapped the bed last night; it happens.  It's that there are too many nights where they don't bring their "A" game consistently.  And given the forward talent, I don't think we should accept that.

The narrative going in to the season was that the Leafs would have 3 lines that would be almost impossible to contain.  That they would be dominant.  I never thought they would be quite as good as TBL.  But they don't give me the sense of being a dominant team.

I'm not naive, this is the best Leafs team in 50 years and I've never enjoyed watching them more than this year.  I'm just being honest, was hoping for a little bit more.

That?s the thing no one wants to say.  Yes, leafs are having their best season in foreve, but they are still playing below expectations. And that?s due to consistent effort.  Some nights they just don?t compete, there have been worse leaf teams that were more fun to watch because they consistently competed. 

Staring down another first round matchup with the bruins adds to the angst, because the bruins own real estate in the leafs head.

Technically sure, but Leafs are currently only 1 point pace better than last season's 105. I think expectations were to have a regular season better than last year, so they're on track for that, but I understand what you're saying.

Thing is though, it's still a long way to go.  How a team looks today has no bearing on what happens in the playoffs. Hell, you need to get lucky, have players get hot at the right time and you never know.

I always think back to last year, Capitals down 2-0 in games to Columbus in round 1 of the playoffs, game 3 goes to overtime. Columbus was 1 shot away from taking a 3-0 lead and most likely crushing the Capitals will; if that happened Caps don't win the Cup.  You just never know.

 

[Kin]

Heck, the lowly Islanders are ahead of us in the standings.  (Their fans must be having a hell of a lot of fun this morning at our expense.)  Anybody laughing at Lou now?

Oh good, someone brought up the Isles again. Seeing as how they're success is almost entirely dependent on two journeymen goalies putting up Vezina-like numbers, yeah I'm still laughing at Lou because I know how funny next season is going to be.

Nothing quite like people waving away the only statistic that counts.

Which is why the Presidents' Trophy is the only one people care about.

 

[herman]

If you?re comparing against last season?s 105 pts, keep in mind the Leafs took a lot of shootout wins and other 1-point victories, which are pretty coin-tossy things, especially outside of regulation time. Again, this year it?s with months of Matthews/Nylander missing/ramping back up. Like with scoring, you have to look at long term underlying results and context, not just isolated incidents and declaring it a pattern. Keep in mind the Leafs are also getting the lowest PP opportunity rate in the league, and that was a differentiating factor in many wins last season.

Not even counting the losses here, last season, out of 49 wins, 22 were one-goalers, 12 of which were OT/SO. 58 games in, the Leafs had 34 wins, 15 of which were one-goal wins, 10 of which came in extra time. Only 56% of our wins in those first 58 games were unequivocal. The total season's percentage rounded out to 55%.

This season thus far, the Leafs have 36 wins where 9 were one-goalers, 6 in OT. That's 75% of our wins being real deals sealed. We're on pace for 50 wins, and 38 by 2+ compared to last season's 27.

For comparison's sake, 13 of NYI's 35 wins this season are by 1 goal. 17 of Tampa's 44 are by 1 goal.

		17-18 @ 58 GP		18-19 @ 58 GP		17-18		18-19 pace
Wins		34		36		49		51
One-goal Wins		15		9		22		12
OT/SO Wins		10		6		12		8
%age of wins by 2+		56%		75%		55%

Would it be meaningful to include the 1-goal losses? Probably. We have 6 one-goal losses at 58 games, meaning there are 15 games of the 58 that have a fuzzy outcome. Sprinkled in there are one-goal games that became larger differentials due to empty netters too, but I want to keep it simple for now until we have the full season to assess against 2015-2018.

TLDR; the Leafs are better this season.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

TLDR; the Leafs are better this season.

No they're not! Look at the Islanders in the standings!

 

[AvroArrow]

Should have kept Komarov and Martin.  We haven't been the same without them.

 

[ZBBM]

TLDR; the Leafs are better this season.

No they're not! Look at the Islanders in the standings!

Zzzzz.  I schooled you in the other thread about strawman "arguments."