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The Brian Burke Thread

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Saint Nik said:
RedLeaf said:
Can we at least agree that, built into his system is a very well oiled revolving door? ;)

I don't know that Burke is noteworthy in that regard. Lots of GM's change up midstream and he seems as hamstrung by his significant mistakes as anyone else(Komisarek).

I mean, if anything, I think it's a negative as I think he's given up on guys too soon.

I'm not sure when was too soon to give up Komisarek.  The fears of his dudness developed after only a few games have been fully realized.
 
Saint Nik said:
cw said:
Yes in terms of personnel for example, they've made some mistakes - Komisarek being probably the most glaring example. But even the smartest GMs in the history of the league could take you through a list of those. I would have signed Komisarek for 1/2 mil less per year for four years - so I was very close to making the same error.

I think his mistake in re-tooling direction occurred when he was hired so I don't fault his brain trust much for that. Burke was just honoring his word to the MLSE board and the brain trust had to work around that from the outset.

But I think that would be my reaction to any effusive praise for that brain trust. Have the results been there? I mean, I'd be all for assembling the Justice League of hockey brains if there was much to suggest it yielded something terrific but until now it seems like an experiment in progress.

I think we know some of those results factually. Nonis has been credited with some of the deals because he gets along with some GMs better than Burke (ie I think the recent Nashville deal was one). A couple of the others got credit for a couple of other acquisitions (Poulin was one who picked one of the players who played in the NCAA - don't recall which one offhand but he was a decent choice). Loiselle has been good with contract and cap management - I'd say he knows the CBA very well.

My impressions from listening to a number of interviews with each of them are all very good. These guys strike me as very reasonable, intelligent and knowledgeable of the CBA, the league, the players and the prospects. Any one of them strikes me as an asset to discuss any move a GM might consider. All of them impressed me more than a Bill Watters for example.

I think Nonis or Dudley would crack a lot of prospective lists for teams looking for a GM. Poulin and Loiselle cracking such a list wouldn't shock me. They've impressed me as really knowing their stuff.

Beyond that, I suppose it's guesswork and my personal impression. I don't remember any Leafs front office ever in their history with such a group and I don't recall many NHL teams with anything as deep.

Burke's management style is by committee. As GM, he retains the right for the final say. But many times in his interviews, he's revealed how these guys have helped him and given them credit where credit was due.

With the CBA and the more complex businesses these NHL franchises have become and the growth of the hockey world, I can't imagine how the one or two member management teams of the past could function successfully today. I think it's to Burke's credit that he's embraced a true team approach to his management of the franchise.

When I visualize them sitting down to discuss a move,  I think that crew would come up with all the salient issues in a matter of minutes. No group will ever get 100% of their personnel decisions right but I can't fathom that crew missing many tricks or angles when they've been consulted.
 
Saint Nik said:
RedLeaf said:
Can we at least agree that, built into his system is a very well oiled revolving door? ;)

I don't know that Burke is noteworthy in that regard. Lots of GM's change up midstream and he seems as hamstrung by his significant mistakes as anyone else(Komisarek).

I mean, if anything, I think it's a negative as I think he's given up on guys too soon.

One player does not make up a Muskoka Five. What player has he lost out on that looked good playing for the Leafs?
 
RedLeaf said:
Fair enough. And I don't disagree with most of your points. I guess I was trying to see if you think his plan is set up to be able to quickly fix inevitable mistakes or be stuck with and dragged down by them for years (ala JFJ.)

Can we at least agree that, built into his system is a very well oiled revolving door? ;)

A lot of management is reluctant to admit an error or do anything about it in a timely fashion. I think it's a strong management characteristic of Burke that he's pretty quick to recognize and admit an error and he's been almost remarkable in how many he's been able to fix fairly quickly and often painlessly: Lebda, Beauchemin, Versteeg are three pretty good example in terms of personnel. when Caputi didn't pan out, he at least tried to salvage some prospect value with Deschamps.

He was a little slow recognizing top 6/bottom 6 wouldn't work but he made a creditable effort to rectify it this season as another example.

When re-tooling failed as the UFA market dried up, he at least shifted into a mini rebuild to build up his prospects and did a pretty decent job of it.

I don't think those things were all planned. He's just very capable when he sees something not working and pretty quick to attempt a decent fix to rectify the error under a CBA that would hamstring many other GMs who seem to lack Burke's creativity to get a deal done.
 
Burke said he wants to entertain the fans, always make them feel like they got their money's worth. Well there's a
large contingent of fans chanting "fire Wilson", any thoughts Burke?
 
Zee said:
Burke said he wants to entertain the fans, always make them feel like they got their money's worth. Well there's a
large contingent of fans chanting "fire Wilson", any thoughts Burke?

ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED??
 
Worst thing that can happen is Leafs bring Owuya from Marlies and he goes on a tear. Mind simply shudders at the thought of Burke going with Reimer and Owuya next year.

After giving Owuya 4 year, 8 million dollar deal.
 
Burke's biggest failure at the deadline was not acquiring a veteran netminder.

Seriously, like ANYBODY. And at whatever cost, short of a first-round pick.

And I'm not even blaming tonight's game on Reimer, but someone like Giguere sure would come in handy in the locker room these days.
 
Bonsixx said:
Burke's biggest failure at the deadline was not acquiring a veteran netminder.

Seriously, like ANYBODY. And at whatever cost, short of a first-round pick.

And I'm not even blaming tonight's game on Reimer, but someone like Giguere sure would come in handy in the locker room these days.

Whats Marty Turco doing right now?
People laugh but im serious. Why there isnt a guy in there who at least at some point was a solid NHL goaltender who can help these guys and tutor them....
letting Gigeure walk was clearly a big mistake.
 
The one concern I had when Burke gave RW the extension was what would happen if the Leafs went on a losing streak.  At some point during the season I expected a 3 or 4 game losing streak similar to what the decent teams go through, but not something like this.  Back in December I figured if the Leafs failed to make the playoffs it would be because even though the Leafs may have a decent record at the end of the season, there were just too many teams better than the Leafs, and not because the team plays like sissies.
 
Mack674 said:
Bonsixx said:
Burke's biggest failure at the deadline was not acquiring a veteran netminder.

Seriously, like ANYBODY. And at whatever cost, short of a first-round pick.

And I'm not even blaming tonight's game on Reimer, but someone like Giguere sure would come in handy in the locker room these days.

Whats Marty Turco doing right now?
People laugh but im serious. Why there isnt a guy in there who at least at some point was a solid NHL goaltender who can help these guys and tutor them....
letting Gigeure walk was clearly a big mistake.

Turco is apparently sucking up the Austrian league.  Fairly unlikely he'll be useful for us.
 
Bonsixx said:
Burke's biggest failure at the deadline was not acquiring a veteran netminder.

Seriously, like ANYBODY. And at whatever cost, short of a first-round pick.

And I'm not even blaming tonight's game on Reimer, but someone like Giguere sure would come in handy in the locker room these days.

Unfortunately, I think Ottawa set the price of goalies high, considering Bishop garnered a 2nd.  Anyone of use that was available was probably gonna cost a 1st or good prospect.

Plus, the other teams have to want to deal to us.  NYI obviously didn't with Nabokov, so there's no guarantee anyone would even deal with us.  Hard to blame Burke without knowing what happened behind the scenes.
 
AvroArrow said:
Mack674 said:
Bonsixx said:
Burke's biggest failure at the deadline was not acquiring a veteran netminder.

Seriously, like ANYBODY. And at whatever cost, short of a first-round pick.

And I'm not even blaming tonight's game on Reimer, but someone like Giguere sure would come in handy in the locker room these days.

Whats Marty Turco doing right now?
People laugh but im serious. Why there isnt a guy in there who at least at some point was a solid NHL goaltender who can help these guys and tutor them....
letting Gigeure walk was clearly a big mistake.

Turco is apparently sucking up the Austrian league.  Fairly unlikely he'll be useful for us.

I actually heard the opposite that he posted a couple of shutouts and is playing pretty well. He's only 32 after all.

I dont mean specifically lets get Turco, im just pointing out that there were tons of options to bring any kind of veteran presence to this team, specifically goaltending and they didnt bother.

Again, shouldnt have let Giguere walk.
 
Mack674 said:
AvroArrow said:
Mack674 said:
Bonsixx said:
Burke's biggest failure at the deadline was not acquiring a veteran netminder.

Seriously, like ANYBODY. And at whatever cost, short of a first-round pick.

And I'm not even blaming tonight's game on Reimer, but someone like Giguere sure would come in handy in the locker room these days.

Whats Marty Turco doing right now?
People laugh but im serious. Why there isnt a guy in there who at least at some point was a solid NHL goaltender who can help these guys and tutor them....
letting Gigeure walk was clearly a big mistake.

Turco is apparently sucking up the Austrian league.  Fairly unlikely he'll be useful for us.

I actually heard the opposite that he posted a couple of shutouts and is playing pretty well. He's only 32 after all.

I dont mean specifically lets get Turco, im just pointing out that there were tons of options to bring any kind of veteran presence to this team, specifically goaltending and they didnt bother.

Again, shouldnt have let Giguere walk.

Turco is 36
 
Mack674 said:
I actually heard the opposite that he posted a couple of shutouts and is playing pretty well. He's only 32 after all.

I dont mean specifically lets get Turco, im just pointing out that there were tons of options to bring any kind of veteran presence to this team, specifically goaltending and they didnt bother.

Again, shouldnt have let Giguere walk.

1) How do you know there were tons of options?  I only heard speculation on a few goalies: Harding, Schneider (minor spec here - expensive to acquire), Bernier (expensive to acquire), and Nabokov (eventually came out that NYI had no interest in moving him), and Khabibulin.  Teams aren't always looking to unload their backup goalies.

2) How do you know they didn't bother?
 
So, how long is Burkes leash at this point?  Ron Wilson is the guy I want fired first, no doubt, but Burke has to share a lot of this responsibility.

Every player looks completely disinterested on the ice.
 
That discussion has a lot to do with whether or not Burke is meeting the goals of the board of directors. Those goals go a lot further than just making the playoffs and probably have as much or more to do with the business side of things.
 
I'd like to see them change the whole team's style of play.  In this regard, I think Ron Wilson and Brian Burke are on the same page to stick to how they're playing however.
 
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