Boston Leaf
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the JFJ Rask trade set us back tenfold over that Kessel trade
The Brian Burke Thread
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bustaheims
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Boston Leaf said:
Probably, yeah. The team traded away their top prospect there (one they could certainly use right now) and got nothing in return. The Kessel deal was costly, sure, but, it landed the team a 24 year old player who was 6th in the league in goals and points this season.
I think the point that Burke was trying to make about the Pittsburgh model, is that for every Pittsburgh, there's at least 5 teams who have little to no success using that model.
With ANY team built through the draft, there is a tremendous amount of luck involved in putting a successful team on the ice. It all hinges on your prospects developing and maturing so that they are all ready at the same time. Where Pittsburgh got lucky with Crosby is that Crosby was ready to play right out of the gate and instantly be the best player in the league. By the time they won the Cup, most of those other guys they drafted already had a few years of development time under their belts (on top of being exceptional players). They had near perfect timing both in when they sucked, and how long it took their players to develop to a high level.
Edmonton, and even Chicago are better examples of how painfully long the process actually is. Columbus is a shining example of how badly that model can blow up in your face.
Basically, I don't think there is too much difference between how Burke is building the team, and what you guys want, except that you all want and expect instant results. The kind of talk around here about Schenn and Kadri is proof enough of that.
Potential means nothing if a player never reaches it.
With ANY team built through the draft, there is a tremendous amount of luck involved in putting a successful team on the ice. It all hinges on your prospects developing and maturing so that they are all ready at the same time. Where Pittsburgh got lucky with Crosby is that Crosby was ready to play right out of the gate and instantly be the best player in the league. By the time they won the Cup, most of those other guys they drafted already had a few years of development time under their belts (on top of being exceptional players). They had near perfect timing both in when they sucked, and how long it took their players to develop to a high level.
Edmonton, and even Chicago are better examples of how painfully long the process actually is. Columbus is a shining example of how badly that model can blow up in your face.
Basically, I don't think there is too much difference between how Burke is building the team, and what you guys want, except that you all want and expect instant results. The kind of talk around here about Schenn and Kadri is proof enough of that.
Potential means nothing if a player never reaches it.
I can see why Burke got defensive there, the model included getting really lucky and sucking for years. The Pens organization was a mess and drafted top 5 five years in a row.
5-1-2-1-2
Honestly, what GM is going to point to that and say hey folks, we're going to bottom out like the Pens did and hope to get lucky too.
I mean, even losing the lottery to Washington and getting Malkin instead of Ovechkin is kind of funny.
5-1-2-1-2
Honestly, what GM is going to point to that and say hey folks, we're going to bottom out like the Pens did and hope to get lucky too.
I mean, even losing the lottery to Washington and getting Malkin instead of Ovechkin is kind of funny.
J
Jalili
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Corn Flake said:
Straight from the boss? mouth himself, the plan to rebuild was already over by then. But yeah, that trade pretty much sealed it.
Zee
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bustaheims said:
I have nothing against Kessel and I agree he's a great talent, but he's the guy you look to add after you've got the core pieces in place, a solid center, a solid goalie. I'm not saying Seguin would be the savior, but he's only 20 years old right now. 4 years younger than Kessel. That's the first draft pick Burke traded away, add in the NEXT year, and you have another 19 year old in the mix (who knows who the Leafs would have drafted), but that's now 2 pieces 20 or younger instead of Kessel right now. That's an actual blueprint -- going with draft picks and allowing them to develop.
Suddenly you have:
Kadri (drafted the year before the Seguin draft)
Seguin
Next guy taken (maybe Hamilton we don't know)
and Colborne in the Kaberle trade which could have still been made.
That's at least a blue-print. Burke instead traded 2 firsts and a second for Kessel, a great player, but it's not the way to build a core. Your top 2 guys are now Kessel and Lupul. Lupul is approaching 30, how many top-end years left will he have?
Deebo said:
Also Florida.
Sure this year they had some success (if you consider playoffs a success) but they literally BOUGHT their team. They didnt make it because all their young players developed. They made it because they dealt for/signed Theodore, Campbell, Versteeg, Jovanovski, Fleishmaan, Bergenheim, Upshall, etc, etc.
bustaheims
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Deebo said:
Or Atlanta, who had 4 consecutive top 2 picks and turned into 1 playoff series.
bustaheims
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Erndog said:
Even then, they lost more games than they won, and really only made the playoffs because Washington flamed out for a while and Miller got injured for long enough to cost Buffalo a few points.
Kin
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Erndog said:
Although it seems to be a widely held belief that in addition to the success they're having right now they have one of the better stocked farm systems in the league.
And Florida is another example, like Columbus, of a team that never really bottomed out. They drafted in the top 5 only three times prior to the last couple years and never higher than #3(Although that's in part because they traded the Rick Nash pick).
Deebo said:
The Islanders had the drafting part going pretty well but utterly failed in the development side of the equation. Mad Mike couldn't resist flinging top prospects out the door.
Had the Islanders shown some patience, they might have had another Cup team. It remains to be seen if Garth Snow is doing a better job, but I doubt he's doing a worse job.
Kin
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Zee said:
But it's also a lousy comparison because of the realities of the franchises being mentioned. Comparing the Leafs to the struggles of teams who had extremely limited budgets during the pre-cap era or teams who had terrible ownership or awful GM's...well, it's not entirely legitimate.
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